HC Deb 17 June 1947 vol 438 cc1762-5
1. Mr. Stanley Prescott

asked the Minister of National Insurance how many claims have been submitted and are outstanding by women old age pensioners who are in receipt of a pension in respect of their husbands' insurance but claim an increased pension by virtue of their own insurance.

The Minister of National Insurance (Mr. James Griffiths)

At 7th June, 1947, a total of 13,180 claims to old age pension in right of their own insurance had been received from women who were already receiving pensions by virtue of their husbands' insurance, and 2,818 claims were outstanding. Fresh claims continue to be received at the rate of about 250 a week. Most of those outstanding are cases in which the evidence the applicant can supply in support of the application is insufficient, but there nevertheless seems to be some ground for thinking that the claim may be valid. In such cases the Department themselves make further inquiries, and this is usually a laborious process which takes a long time before all the relevant facts can be ascertained.

Mr. Prescott

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that this delay causes considerable anxiety among claimants, and in view cr1 the fact that there are very many of these cases in my constituency—and no doubt there are many others in the constituencies of other hon. Members—will he do all he can to speed up the matter?

Mr. Griffiths

I appreciate that. The hon. Member sent a case to me which illustrates the difficulty. It was the case of a claimant, reaching pensionable age as far back as 1938, whose insurance ended in 1934. We could have turned it down, but we sent an inspector to the claimant to find out whether there was some other way of giving a pension.

Sir Stanley Reed

While I appreciate fully the difficulties of the Department, will the right hon. Gentleman do all he can to speed up this matter?

Mr. Griffiths

We are doing everything in our power to speed it up.

Air-Commodore Harvey

is the Minister aware that when hon. Members take up these cases with the local authorities, they gain very little satisfaction, and in order to save the right hon. Gentlemen trouble, will he see that that position is remedied?

Mr. Griffiths

The local authorities concerned are the assistance boards. They have their own work to do, but they are helping to the utmost extent in this matter.

7. Mr. George Jeger

asked the Minister of National Insurance when Mr. E. H. Thompson, 2, Rifleman's Cottages, Stan-more Lane, Winchester, pension No. 29516290, may expect to receive his increased old age pension book which was due in October.

Mr. J. Griffiths

A pension order book at the increased rate was issued to Mr. Thompson on 16th June.

9. Mr. John Henderson

asked the Minister of National Insurance why Mr. L. McLean and his wife, 108, Boman Street, Glasgow, are not being paid the 42s. old age pension in view of the fact that Mr. McLean was an insured person under the contributory scheme, and the pension of 20s. for the couple was paid without deduction prior to the change in the pension rate.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of National Insurance (Mr. Steele)

In accordance with the Increase of Old. Age Pensions Regulations, 1946, Mr. and Mrs. McLean have been in receipt of old age pensions at the increased rates of 23s. 6d. and 13s. 6d. a week respectively, since 4th October, 1946. In addition, they are in receipt of a dependant's war pension of 5s. a week payable in respect of a brother. The total amount received by them by way of pension is, therefore, 42s. a week.

10. Mr. Granville Sharp

asked the Minister of National Insurance what is the approximate number of women between the ages of 60 and 64 years inclusive, otherwise eligible for an old age pension of 26s. a week, who have had this denied because, though earning less than £1 a week, they worked for more than 12 hours a week; and what action he proposes taking to remove this anomaly.

Mr. Steele

The question whether there is title to the higher rate of pension. depends not on the pensioner's earnings, but on the question whether he can be treated as having retired from regular employment. Certain decisions of the Umpire, who is the final authority on this question, are set out in a paper published by the Stationery Office on the application of provisions relating to retirement, copies of which are available in the Library. The number of cases in which the statutory authorities have held that a pensioner in the circumstances indicated in the Question cannot be treated as retired is not known precisely, but it is very small. These decisions turn upon the interpretation of the statute and my right hon. Friend has no power to vary them.

Mr. Sharp

Is my hon. Friend aware that at the time the National Insurance Bill was going through the House, there was no suggestion that a pensioner who was earning less than £1 a week would be denied that pension because he was working more than 12 hours a week? Is he further aware that the Umpire's decision is not based on the facts, but on the regulations which the Ministry has issued? In view of the anomaly that is created, will he consider amending the regulations?

Mr. Steele

As I pointed out, earnings are not taken into consideration at all in regard to decisions about retirement. Retirement itself is decided, and earnings come into the picture only after the person has retired. The regulations are based on the Act. One of the disturbing features of the type of case to which my hon. Friend has referred is that there are people who are working more than 12 hours a week, and who are receiving a pittance of less than 20s. a week.

Mrs. Jean Mann

Does not my hon. Friend consider that in these days of need for increased production, and in view of the fact that the population is growing older and the number of those reaching pensionable age is mounting, the 20S. limit should be withdrawn altogether?

Mr. Steele

We cover the position in regard to inducement to stay at work, in that portion of the new Act which has not yet come into operation. We do not wish to encourage employers to employ people for more than 12 hours a week at less than 20S.

Mr. Drayson

When the hon. Gentleman is' looking into these regulations, will he consider the question of caretakers? Many old people take jobs as caretakers, and it is difficult to define how many hours they work a week. They are on the job all the time.

Mr. Steele

Every case is treated on its merits.

Mr. Gallacher

Are we to take it that it these old people retire and then go back to their jobs, they will be entitled to draw their pension?

Mr. Steele

Each case must be treated on its merits.

Mr. Douglas Marshall

is the hon. Gentleman aware that his answer is in direct conflict with the Prime Minister's request to everyone to work as hard as possible? Will he reconsider this matter?

Mr. Speaker

We have spent a lot of time on this Question.

Mr. Sharp

In view of the thoroughly unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.