§ 62. Major Tufton Beamishasked the Secretary of State for War by what considerations he was guided in selecting 70 Poles for deportation to Germany from approximately 10,000 members of the Polish armed forces who were neither willing to return to Poland nor to join the Polish Resettlement Corps; and by what considerations he will be guided in selecting further men for deportation.
§ The Secretary of State for War (Mr. Bellenger)The number of members of the Polish armed forces in this country who are willing neither to return to Poland nor to join the Polish Resettlement Corps is now approximately 5,000. One hundred and five have been moved to Germany. The two principal factors taken into account in selecting those sent to Germany were the order in which they were offered enlistment into the Polish Resettlement Corps or return to Poland, and the desirability of spreading the selection as widely as-possible throughout units in the United Kingdom. I am not in a position to say whether others will be sent to Germany or, if so, how they will be chosen.
§ Major BeamishIs the right hon. Gentleman certain that these deportations are in accordance with previous promises given by the Government, and will he say whether he agrees that it seems a most extraordinary form of gratitude to Poles who, perhaps, fought at Tobruk and Monte 385 Cassino, to deport them to Germany because they will not go home or join the Polish Resettlement Corps?
§ Mr. BellengerI do not think these Poles have shown the gratitude they ought to the British Government. We are endeavouring to do what we can for these unfortunate people, but they must go through the ordinary machinery and deal with the Polish Resettlement Corps, which is the organisation for resettling them.
§ Mr. Sydney SilvermanApart from the merits of the matter, can my right hon. Friend explain by what legal authority a man who does not belong to Germany is deported to Germany?
§ Mr. BellengerWith regard to a certain number of them I could, because deportation orders have been made against them.
§ Mr. S. SilvermanI am afraid my right hon. Friend has not understood my question. A deportation order to send a man to a particular country cannot be made without the man's consent, unless it is his own country. I ask under what legal authority a man is deported to Germany if he is not a German and does not agree to go there?
§ Mr. BellengerI should have thought those matters were for my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. With regard to those who will neither return to Poland nor accept resettlement through the chosen instrument, the Polish Resettlement Corps, obviously, something has to be done to resettle them.
§ Mr. EdenCould the right hon. Gentleman give a little more information on this matter? I thought a deportation order required the authority of a court. Who will issue the deportation order? Where are the men sent in Germany—what part of Germany? To whom are they handed over—the Russian zone?
§ Mr. BellengerNo, Sir, they are not, but these Poles who will not accept "civilianisation," if I may so call it, through the Polish Resettlement Corps are under military authority.
§ Mr. BingIs my right hon. Friend aware that among those who were deported, or who are down for deportation, there is at least one man who was the assistant surgeon at the Auschwitz concentration camp, and who did not join 386 the Polish forces until the conclusion of hostilities, and is it not a good thing that such persons should be deported?
§ Major BeamishCould it be made clear whether it is voluntary or compulsory that Poles who do not return to Poland join the Polish Resettlement Corps?
§ Mr. BellengerI should have thought, considering the arrangements which have been made through the Polish Resettlement Corps to obtain advantages for these people, that they would be only too willing to join, but if they are not willing to do so we have to settle them somewhere.
§ Mr. H. HyndMy right hon. Friend has said that 5,000 of these men have refused to join the Polish Resettlement Corps or to go back to Poland. If they are not going to be dealt with in the way mentioned, how are they to be dealt with?
§ Major BeamishMay I have an answer to my question?
§ Captain CrookshankDo I understand that the point is this? These men are given the option of either joining the Polish Resettlement Corps or going to Poland. They refuse to go to Poland and, therefore, they are sent to Germany. The question I would like to ask is, why Germany, out of all the countries in the world?
§ Mr. BellengerIt is obvious that we cannot continue to keep members of the Polish land forces in this country if they are prepared neither to go back to Poland, nor to accept rehabilitation through the Polish Resettlement Corps, nor to work.
§ Captain CrookshankWhy send them to Germany?
§ Major BeamishIn view of the thoroughly unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.
§ Mr. S. SilvermanOn a point of Order, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask for your guidance. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War has just informed the House that he is in the habit, in certain circumstances, the merits of which I will not go into, of compelling people who do not belong to Germany to go to Germany without their consent. 387 That seems to be a confession by the Secretary of State for War that he is habitually acting illegally, and, in those circumstances, may I ask what remedy the House has got?
§ Mr. SpeakerI understand that the matter is to be raised on the Adjournment.
§ Mr. TeelingMy hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Lewes (Major Beamish) has announced his intention of raising the matter on the Adjournment, but it may take weeks before he gets the Adjournment. Is there no statement which can be made on the Floor of the House?
§ Mr. MolsonOn a point of Order. When an hon. Member has announced that he will raise a matter at some time on the Adjournment, does that mean that there are no other opportunities for discussing the matter until that Adjournment?
§ Mr. SpeakerIt means that Parliamentary Questions cannot be asked now.
§ Later—
§ Captain CrookshankNow that we have finished Questions, is this the moment at which I can ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, that is to say, the continuing deportation of Polish subjects to Germany?
§ Mr. GallacherMay I rise to a point of Order?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe right hon. and gallant Gentleman asks leave to move the Adjournment of the House to draw attention to the continuing deportation of Polish subjects to Germany. The Rule says that a matter to be discussed on such a Motion must be an urgent matter of definite public importance. But the right hon. and gallant Gentleman's Motion says that this is "continuing." That means that this has been going on for some time; and, therefore, it cannot come definitely under the Rule.
§ Captain CrookshankWith all due deference, Mr. Speaker, this is the first time that the matter has been brought to the attention of the House—[HON, MEMBERS: "No."] For that reason it is definite and urgent.
§ Mr. SpeakerYes, but it seems to me that there is some confusion. I am not sure that the facts are quite clear. The facts must be ascertained. That is another reason for refusing the Motion for the Adjournment under Rule 8.
§ Mr. EdenMay I again appeal to the Secretary of State for War to make a fuller statement at an early date? No one is trying to create any prejudice on this issue, but there is concern in all quarters of the House not to do an act of injustice to these people. I say quite frankly to the House that I am not clear what the position is, and that is true of all sides of the House.
§ The Lord President of the Council (Mr. Herbert Morrison)If I may intervene, I would say I think the best thing would be for us to consider if it would be useful for such a statement to be made. I am not quite sure whether, if a statement were made, it would be made more appropriately by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War or my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. But we will look into it to see if a statement can be made.
§ Mr. Godfrey NicholsonIn the meantime are these proceedings to stop?
§ Mr. MorrisonIt really cannot be assumed that the Government are capitulating on the point of policy involved. The right hon. Gentleman has asked for a considered statement as soon as may be, and I have promised to give consideration to that matter.
§ Mr. NicholsonBut, surely, the right hon. Gentleman recognises that there is general anxiety on all sides of the House at the thought that injustice may be done, and that it may be done every day? Can he assure the House that we need not have anxiety on this point while the statement is being considered?
§ Mr. MorrisonNo, Sir, we cannot give that undertaking because a Question has been put in the House. I must make it abundantly clear that the Government cannot easily be a consenting party to keeping foreigners here, at the British taxpayers' expense, for an indefinite period of time.
§ Mr. NicholsonBut the Government are under an obligation to keep the law.
§ Mr. S. SilvermanIs my right hon. Friend aware that the principle involved in this matter is not confined at all to the particular case about which the matter of policy may have commanded the agreement of many of us, but that this procedure is being used almost daily in respect of people who have been here for 20 or 30 years?
§ Mr. MorrisonThe principle I have enunciated has to be kept in mind as well. There are too many people in this country and abroad who are continuing to live in idleness at the expense of the taxpayers.
§ Mr. BeswickMay I ask my right hon. Friend if he is aware that in Germany at the present time, in our own zone, there have been for the last two years about 20,000 Poles about whom no question has been asked? They have been treated and kept in far less pleasant surroundings than the Poles in this country, and there would appear to be no injustice in sending a few from this country to join the much larger number in Germany.
§ Mr. S. SilvermanIn view of what my right hon. Friend has just said about the undesirability of keeping people here for years who are unwilling to work, will he bear in mind that some of the cases I have in mind are cases of people who are being deported because they have worked in circumstances which the Minister of Labour described the other day as "gatecrashing?"
§ Mr. SpeakerThe Question originally was concerned with Polish soldiers only.