§ (1) A development council order shall designate, in such manner as appears to the Board or Minister concerned to be requisite for preventing uncertainty, the activities that are to be treated as constituting the industry for which the development council is established (whether being such as are regarded for any other purpose as those of a single industry or such as are regarded for any other purpose as those of a group of industries or of a section or sections of an industry or industries).
§ (2) An order amending a development council order may provide that further activities, designated as aforesaid, are to be treated as 50 included in the industry for which the council is established, or that activities, designated as aforesaid, which are for the time being so treated are no longer to be so treated.
§ (3) The preceding subsections shall apply also to an order under section nine of this Act and an order amending such an order, with the substitution of references to the industry in connection with which funds are to be made available under that section for references to the industry for which a development council is established and other requisite modifications.
§ (4) In accordance with the preceding provisions of this section, the expression "the industry," where used in this Act in relation to a development council or to an order under section nine of this Act, shall be construed as references to the industry that is for the time being in accordance with those provisions, that for which the council is established or in connection with which funds are to be made available, as the case may be.—[Mr. Marquand.]
§ Brought up, and read the First time.
51§ 4.6 p.m.
§ The Paymaster - General (Mr. Marquand)I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
I regret that my right hon. and learned Friend the President of the Board of Trade has had to leave the House on important business but he will be returning shortly. This new Clause is designed to meet a point which was made in Committee by my hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Rhodes), with his usual vigour. He was supported from both sides of the Committee, and carried the Committee with him in a famous battle on his proposal to amend the Bill. He suggested that the term "industry," which is used throughout the Bill, should not be confined to narrow groupings of firms. He gave the example of textiles, in which he argued there were factors common to wool, cotton, silk and the staple rayon industries, and that it was desirable to have a development council for the whole textile industry. The Government want to meet the point then raised and, of course, to accept the view which the Committee registered by its vote.
However, we were not entirely satisfied with the Amendment carried by the Committee because, for one thing, it might throw doubt on the power to set up a council for what might be regarded as part of an industry; for another thing, it would be meaningless to refer to an industry or a group of industries in the first instance but throughout the rest of the Bill simply to refer to "the industry." We have been advised that the two expressions, though intended to describe the same thing, would in law have different meanings, and that confusion might thus result. In order to meet the point to which the Committee attached importance, this new Clause has been drafted to replace the original Clause 14, which dealt with the definition of an industry. The new Clause states explicitly that "industry" may mean a group of industries, or a section of an industry, as well as what may commonly be called a single industry.
The Clause is designed to meet another point which was raised in Committee. Hon. Members opposite objected to the fact that Clause 14 was drawn permissively; that is, it authorised the Minister to define an industry to which an 52 Order related but did not require him to do so. The view was then expressed that a definition ought invariably to be included, in order to avoid any doubt as to what activities brought firms within the scope of an Order. My hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary, during the Committee stage, said that he was advised it would be undesirable to impose an absolute obligation on Ministers. He was advised that while definition could undoubtedly be inserted in the great majority of Orders, there might be cases in which that would be impossible without excessive elaboration. In such cases the scope of the industry concerned could be clearly ascertained in practice; and it was wiser to leave the matter to practice than to introduce a verbal formula. My hon. Friend agreed further to consider the point, and this Clause goes far to meet the criticisms which were made. It requires the Minister to designate the activities which are to be treated as constituting the industry for which the development council is to be established, and ensures that there shall be no uncertainty. The Government have done their best, after considerable thought, to meet the criticisms which were made from both sides, and I hope that this Clause will be found acceptable.
§ Mr. Oliver Lyttelton (Aldershot)I will not detain the House further than to say that this Clause is acceptable, and that its 23 lines handsomely recapitulate the attitude indicated in Committee. I thank the Paymaster-General for having conceded a Parliamentary victory to the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Rhodes), especially as I, too, had some part in the battle.
§ Mr. Rhodes (Ashton-under-Lyne)I wish to express my appreciation of the way this Clause has been drafted, and also to say that we have been handsomely met in this matter.
§ Mr. William Shepherd (Bucklow)While we are pleased to see these two matters incorporated, I do not think the Paymaster-General paid sufficient attention to the second point. With Clause 14 as it stood, this Bill would have organised nothing but chaos. It is possible under the new Clause, by an amending Order, to extend the scope of the activities of a development council. When the activities 53 of a development council are to be extended, I should like an assurance that all sections of the industry concerned will be consulted before any alteration takes place.
§ Mr. MarquandI think I can safely give that assurance. It seems a perfectly reasonable point.
§ Clause read a Second time, and added to the Bill.