HC Deb 10 February 1947 vol 433 cc148-58

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."— [Mr. Popplewell]

10.2 p.m.

Mr. Willis (Edinburgh, North)

I am glad to have the opportunity tonight of raising a matter which is causing very great concern in Scotland, namely, the increasing number of unemployed. During the past year, the number registered as unemployed in Scotland has increased from 54,000 to 78,000, not including those temporarily stopped. The number of men and women unemployed for periods longer than eight weeks has increased from 37,000 to 40,000 in the last six months. During the past three months, the number of men unemployed for over six months has increased from 12,900 to 14,200. These figures indicate that there has been a steady deterioration in the unemployment situation in Scotland during the past 12 months. We would like some information about this tonight, and some information as to what is being done to meet this situation.

Last year, on 14th May and 14th October, in the House, the President of the Board of Trade gave figures indicating that his Department lad approved of projects for Scotland which would provide work for some 60,000 workers by the end of December. I understand from this week's "Board of Trade Journal" that projects have now been approved to give work for approximately 71,000 workers. We were told in May by my right hon. Friend that work in connection with these projects would be complete in a number of cases, and that work would have been found by December for some 35,000. It was stated that by December these projects would have a material effect on the unemployment situation in Scotland, and would, in fact, this year be contributing substantially towards a remedy in Scotland. In view of the fact that the unemployment figure is now higher than it has ever been since the war, it would appear that something has gone wrong with these plans of the Board of Trade.

I should like to ask in the first place how many jobs have actually been provided in Scotland by these projects up to the end of 1946; secondly, to what extent has the programme fallen short of what was aimed at; and, thirdly, why has this failure to achieve the target been brought about when we might now expect that the efforts of the Board of Trade will, in fact, contribute towards solving the problem in Scotland. If it is going to be some time before this happens I should like to ask whether any measures have been taken to provide work for the men at present unemployed. We cannot say to men unemployed at the present time that it is all right, for something will be done in a year or two's time. These men want work now. If we analyse the figures for the unemployed we find that during the past year the increase has been wholly in connection with men. The number of men has increased from 31,000 to 58,000, but, on the other hand, the number of females unemployed has fallen from 22,000 to 19,000. One of the criticisms that has frequently been made in connection with these projects approved by my right hon. Friend is that in a large measure they are projects designed to give employment for women, and there is a grave danger now that there will be a shortage of female labour in Scotland, whilst at the same time the number of men seeking work increases.

I should like to ask the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade what is being done about this. Is the Board of Trade now trying to get into the development areas any particular kind of employment that will provide work for men? These projects approved by the Board of Trade are in the development areas and rightly so, but we cannot ignore the fact that unemployment is also increasing in a large number of centres outside the development areas. If we look at the figures in the "Ministry of Labour Gazette "for this month we find the area in which the largest percentage of increase has taken place is in Edinburgh and Leith at the Edinburgh Exchange. We should like to have some information as to what is being done in connection with this. Unemployment has almost trebled itself in Edinburgh, despite the optimistic review in the "Board of Trade Journal," during the past 12 months.

I am confident that my hon. Friend the Member for Leith (Mr. Hoy), who has been very active in this connection, would also like to have some information as to what is being done in connection with Leith because the position there is acute. There are also other areas north of the industrial belt in Scotland: what is the Department doing to encourage industry in those areas? I read with great interest the article in the "Board of Trade Journal" for the current week dealing with this question. It is a very optimistic article and says that prospects have never been better during the past 50 years. But prospects are not enough, we want jobs, not prospects. We have had very optimistic prospects held before us during the past year and let me say, quite frankly, that I think they represent a considerable achievement, and one which is unparalleled during the past 5o years so far as Scotland is concerned. But prospects do not help men to obtain work at the present time, and it is that about which we should like something done.

Here I should like to introduce the question of steel. I know that it really comes under the Minister of Supply and I should have liked to see the Parliamentary Secretary here, but, although I gave him notice that I was raising the matter, unfortunately he could not be present. There is a great shortage of steel in the development areas today, and I think my hon. Friends who represent those areas would bear this out. In a reply to the hon. Member for West Fife (Mr. Gallacher) last week we were told that we could expect no reorganisation or development of the steel industry in Scotland for some time. It seems to me to be fundamental to a prosperous economy in Scotland that we should at least have one basic industry, efficient and well organised, and that this is necessary for the success of the development areas themselves. I should like to ask my hon. Friend what action he has taken to see that this matter is dealt with, because we on these benches at least are very much concerned with the matter.

So far as I have been able to judge, it appears to me that the present policy of the Board of Trade is mainly a negative one—one of direction. Incidentally, I think that, inasmuch as it is a negative policy, it helps to delay action in Scotland. We have cases of business men wishing to start businesses in Edinburgh and in the Lothians, but instead of being assisted to do so they are given to understand by the Board of Trade that they cannot be assisted to start in those areas although if they go to the west of Scotland they will be helped there. The result is that instead of going ahead with the establishment of his business the person concerned usually messes around or tries to explore different channels in order to get his business started, which of course delays the process for several months, know of one or two cases in which that has occurred, and I am sure that other hon. Members know of similar instances. We cannot wait indefinitely while private enterprise is cajoled into starting the right type of industry in the development areas, or while the Scottish Council of Industry, for instance, tours the world trying to persuade foreign private enterprise to come to Scotland in order to start industries. Nor can we afford, at the end of the day, to have a large, hard core of unemployment of some 12,000 to 15,000 men, which appears to be likely judging from the indications at the present time.

These would appear to be the results of the policy that is at present being operated by my hon. Friend's Department, and I would ask him therefore, in conclusion, not merely to treat this matter urgently—because it is urgent—but also to try to work along lines of a more positive character. I would suggest to him that, in cooperation with the other Ministries concerned, the Ministry of Supply, the Ministry of Labour and the Secretary of State for Scotland, he should work along rather more positive lines that will achieve results in a much shorter time than at present.

10.16 p.m.

Mr. Hoy (Leith)

I am glad to have this opportunity of saying a few words on the unemployment problem in Scotland. I would say to the hon. Gentleman on the Front Bench tonight that there is room for grave disquiet. If there is one thing to which Scotland does not wish to return it is the appalling unemployment of the prewar era. In my constituency of Leith we had approximately 28 per cent. of our insured population unemployed at one time, and as a result misery was spread throughout the area. While today the problem is incomparably easier, there has been a steady rise in the unemployment figures, and I want to ask the Minister now if he will give a little more of his attention to areas not yet specified as development areas, although I must say, in passing, that I have not entirely given up hope that we may even achieve that for my area.

However, it causes us some concern that while the total unemployment figures in Leith at December, 1945, were 386, the total unemployed figure for men has jumped from 530 in January of last year to 1,250 at the end of December. This undoubtedly causes a great deal of uneasiness, and I have to the best of my ability brought the matter before the Board of Trade, the Ministry of Supply, the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Minister of Fuel and Power. I will admit that if we could step up coal exports, we might return to the old days when Leith was exporting 2 million tons of coal as against the 165,000 tons which she is handling today. If I have dealt with my constituency, it is mainly because it is similar to many other areas in Scotland and, of course, outside in the development areas.

I approached the Board of Trade in the latter part of 1945, and was told by the hon. Gentleman's predecessor that we were not to depend entirely on what the Board of Trade could provide in the way of industry; that he had every sympathy with our case, but, if we could use a little local initiative, we might achieve some results I want to say to my hon. Friend that we have tried locally to establish new factories—wire works, a paper shavings company which is a very big one—we have tried in all sorts of directions. Occasionally we have been successful in obtaining a building licence, but when we have applied for some priority, this has been denied us outside of a W.B.B. priority, and this, the Parliamentary Secretary must know, amounts to very little in these days of scarcity. What we are asking is that to these areas which have suffered so badly in the past, some special priority ought to be given in view of the increasing unemployment in these areas.

There are two other small points with which I must deal in the minute which remains to me. They are these. Undoubtedly in an area such as my own we depend greatly on shipbuilding, and the deplorable state of the steel industry in Scotland is having its repercussions on us. The largest firm of shipbuilders have told me that they cannot get their steel supplies from Scotland owing to the condition of our steel industry, and they are more and more depending on obtaining supplies from England. We cannot have this hold-up in the steel industry because it has repercussions on the shipbuilding industry and, as such, is bound to worsen the position in my area. The same can be said of timber, but I have said sufficient, I hope, to convince the Parliamentary Secretary that some special attention must be given, and must be given now, to areas such as Leith, and other areas in Scotland that are feeling the draught of unemployment so badly at the present time.

10.21 p.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade (Mr. Belcher)

I hasten to assure my hon. Friend the Member for Leith (Mr. Hoy) that it is not really necessary to appeal to me to give special attention to the problem of unemployment in Scotland. There is no subject about which I am concerned at the Board of Trade which gives me more food for thought than the problem of unemployment, particularly in the development areas including the Scottish development area, and those areas of Great Britain where unemployment was severe in between the two wars and is severe today. I would like to take this opportunity of saying that, quite apart from the Board of Trade, my hon. Friend the Joint Under-Secretary of State for Scotland is unremitting in his endeavours to secure some benefit for the country he represents.

Sir William Darling (Edinburgh, South)

Unemployment goes up.

Mr. Belcher

Unemployment goes up because plans made by this Government to deal with the unemployment situation—which we knew would grow when the artificial prosperity induced by the war vanished with the ending of hostilities—have not yet had time to mature. One cannot plan and build factories, induce industrialists to go to those factories, instal machinery and employ the unemployed in a matter of a few weeks or months—

Sir W. Darling

It was done in 1939

Mr. Belcher

—especially when one has to face raw materials difficulties of the kind we have had to face. But we have made strenuous efforts, and, if I had more time I would like to develop the story of the efforts which have been made. Figures have been quoted tonight which do not, with all respect, give the full picture. Our target, which we have set ourselves, which we hope to achieve, is to provide for 145,000 more jobs than existed in Scotland prior to the war, 85,000 for men and 60,000 for women. At the end of 1946 we had created or approved schemes which will provide jobs for 104,000 or more people. They have not provided those jobs so far because the factories are not completed and the people are not working there, but, nevertheless, the factories are being built, or will be built, and those jobs will be in existence. They were not there before the war.

Mr. Willis

My hon. Friend has quoted figures, but the figure's which I quoted from the "Board of Trade Journal" for this week for the period mentioned by my hon. Friend are quite different from those he has just mentioned.

Sir W. Darling

Impossible.

Mr. Willis

The figures for Scotland as printed in the Journal are: Projects located in Development Areas—Total employment 62,000; projects located outside Development Areas, Scotland, 9,000, making a total of 71,000 approved by the end of 1946.

Mr. Belcher

I hope my hon. Friend will not interrupt me too often, because I have only five or six minutes before we finish. He may take it that the figures have given are accurate and up-to-date. The figures he has quoted may be some weeks old. The delay is accounted for by the time it takes to get them printed in the "Board of Trade journal" As I have already told the House, we have approved a further number of factories in advance of demand from industrialists which we hope will provide jobs for another 12,000 people, in addition to Government-owned munition factories, which will provide another 5,000 jobs. All this is straining our position of raw materials and building labour, and delays must be expected to accrue because of the general strain on building materials and labour, to which must be added the present difficulties arising out of the coal situation.

My hon. Friend who opened this Debate mentioned the employment provided for women, as against that provided for men. That is our difficulty in all the development areas. It is so much easier to find new industries which will provide employment for women, than it is to find industries which will provide employment for men, for the reason that during the war the lighter industries—particularly those making consumer goods—were contracted, while the heavy engineering indus— tries, providing work for men, were expanded. Now the war is over, there is no longer the need to expand the heavy industries and provide employment for men, but to expand the consumer industries. Therefore, it is easier to find industries in the development areas which will provide employment for women. We realise that to cure the Scottish unemployment problem, we have to find work for men, and we are doing everything in our power to provide that employment. The means at our disposal are two. We can dissuade, or stop, heavy industry going where we do not want it to go, and persuade it to go where it is wanted. The Distribution of Industry Act does not give us coercive powers; it gives persuasive powers. We have the power of licensing, which helps us to persuade people from going into areas where we do not want them to go.

The subject of persuading people to go into areas other than development areas has been mentioned. We are aware that there are areas in Britain, in Scotland as well as elsewhere, where there is an unemployment problem outside the development areas. Whilst these areas may not be scheduled as development areas, when we find a problem growing up there, we apply to such areas such help as we may be able to apply in order to assist in the solution of this difficulty. It is possible for us to make some discrimination in the matter of the supply of raw materials, and in the obtaining of building licences. The hon. Member mentioned the subject of steel, and was good enough to tell the House that that was not a subject with which I could deal, but was a matter for the Minister of Supply. He referred to a Question asked by the hon. Member for West Fife (Mr. Gallacher) on 3rd February to which the answer was given that the various proposals for the modernisation and development of the industry in Scotland and elsewhere are being carefully examined by the Iron and Steel Board. There are difficulties which will be well known by the hon. Member. I can only promise him that I will see that the Minister of Supply is acquainted with his wishes. and I will—as I am doing all the time—consult with the Minister of Supply and the Secretary of State for Scotland with a view to doing whatever can he done to assist industrial development in that country.

In conclusion, I say to both hon. Members who have spoken in the Debate that I regard the application of the Distribution of Industry Act of 1945 as possibly the most important job which I have to undertake at the Board of Trade. I am regularly in consultation with the Secretary of State, with the Ministry of Supply, the Ministry of Transport, and with all the other Ministries whose Departments bear any relation to the industrial situation in Scotland, with a view to doing whatever can be done to remedy what is now an unsatisfactory position, and which allowed to deteriorate, would become most unsatisfactory. It will be well known to hon. Members on both sides of the House who represent Scotland that I have on several occasions, paid visits to Scotland, with a view to finding out for myself at first-hand what is the situation, what needs to be done, and what can be done. I can only promise that my efforts in the future in that direction will be as unremitting as they have been in the past.

10.29 p.m.

Colonel Gomme-Duncan (Perth and Kinross, Perth)

In the moment or two that is left I should like to say that we are very grateful to the hon. Member for North Edinburgh (Mr. Willis) for having raised this very important question, and also to the hon. Member for Leith (Mr. Hoy).I must say straight away that I think it deplorable that the Secretary of State for Scotland or one of the Joint Under-Secretaries is not present on such an important occasion for Scotland. I am afraid that a good deal of this trouble of unemployment in Scotland is because the Secretary of State is not pulling his weight with other Departments. When I mentioned this question in the House a short time ago he replied that it was not the concern of his Department. I cannot help feeling that if that is the attitude of the Secretary of State for Scotland, it accounts for the fact that our situation as regards unemployment is rapidly getting worse.

I admit that the hon. Gentleman who has just spoken is doing very excellent work for us and endeavouring to do so, but I do not think it is primarily the concern of the Board of Trade that Scottish industry should be put on its feet; that is primarily a matter for Scotland itself and for the Secretary of State for Scotland. I do not think the Secretary of State is doing his job in that respect, and I have no hesitation in saying so. We are grateful in Scotland that the Board of Trade is taking such an interest, and I very much hope that interest will continue. I am sure it will, but I think It requires to be put on record that the Secretary of State is not doing his job so fat as employment is concerned, because he is not giving the drive of his Department, to back up the others, who are doing their best.

Question put, and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at Twenty-nine Minutes to Eleven o'clock.