Deserters

HC Deb 10 December 1947 vol 445 cc1004-7

51. Mr. Austin

asked the Minister of Defence at whose discretion and on whose authority, are deserters, convicted of civil crimes, discharged from the forces; and whether he can give an estimate of the numbers involved in such discharges.

Mr. Alexander

A number of men, not necessarily deserters, convicted of civil crimes have been discharged, if their sentences were lengthy or if they had shown through continual misbehaviour that they were useless to the Forces. Discharges of this kind require the authority of the Service Department concerned at home, or of the Commander-in-Chief concerned overseas. I am afraid I cannot give a reliable estimate of the number of deserters concerned.

Mr. Austin

Does my right hon Friend's rather vague answer mean that a deserter who commits a sufficiently serious misdemeanour or felony can by that method secure his discharge from the Forces?

Mr. Alexander

I do not think that can be assumed at all. All these cases are dealt with entirely on their merits. In dealing with cases such as desertion and other forms of serious crime, the continuance of the service of a man who has committed such a crime might be of great detriment to the Service, and the Service authorities have the right to consider whether the man should not be discharged in the interests of the Service.

Wing-Commander Hulbert

Can the Minister say, when these men escape from his control, if they are handed over to the Ministry of Labour, and can they be directed?

Mr. Alexander

I should like notice of that question.

Mr. Gallacher

Is the Minister aware that the police informed me that gangs invite discontented soldiers to commit burglary? If they are not caught, they get the proceeds of the burglary, and, if they are caught, they get dismissed from the Army for burglary.

Mr. Alexander

Every case is dealt with on its merits.

Mr. Austin

In view of the importance of this matter, how can hon. Members assess the character of this difficulty if they are not given the information for which I have asked? Can we have a figure given of the numbers of men involved in such discharges? Surely, that is a simple matter.

Mr. Alexander

It is not quite so simple. If we have continually to expand the administration to make detailed inquiries into every one of these questions, we should go on and on increasing the Civil Service.

52. Mr. Austin

asked the Minister of Defence, having regard to the increase in the number of deserters since March last by approximately 3,500 and the difficulties attendant in resolving this problem, what were the methods adopted at the end of the 1914–18 war; and if he proposes to consider the use of the same methods at the present time.

Mr. Alexander

The number of deserters outstanding has decreased by about 800 since 31st March, not increased by 3,500 as stated by my hon. Friend. After the 1914–18 war a procedure was adopted which meant that except in the worst cases no further action was taken to recover wartime deserters, but this did not operate until after compulsory military service had been abolished. Present conditions are totally dissimilar and for this, and other reasons which I have already explained, a similar policy cannot be adopted now.

Mr. Austin

Will not my right hon. Friend give this matter his serious consideration? How does he hope to solve this problem unless he uses a certain amount of courage and vision. Why does not he show a certain amount of courage in standing up to the "Blimps" in the Service Departments, and on the other side of the House?

Mr. Alexander

I do not need any lessons from my hon. Friend upon courage or the occasions on which to use it. I have been tackling this matter for many months past. More than 3,000 men are being quite satisfactorily rehabilitated in response to my offer, and my hon. Friend is only doing a disservice to the men who have not yet responded by deterring them from taking the proper course.

Mr. Austin

In view of the fact that this subject was down for the Adjournment on Monday last and was not called, may I give notice that if the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Air-Commodore Harvey) does not raise it, I intend to do so at the earliest possible opportunity.

53. Mr. Parkin

asked the Minister of Defence how many men classified as deserters in each year since 1939 were men who did not report for service on call-up; and what percentage they formed of the total figure of deserters in each year.

Mr. Alexander

I regret that this information is not readily available and could not be produced without considerable labour. In general, however, I may say that the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force have been able to select their National Service men from among those who expresse a preference for one or other of those Services. Very few of such men have failed to report on call-up.

As regards the Army, if my hon. Friend puts down a question, I have no doubt my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War will do his best to provide any information which is readily available.

Mr. Parkin

Arising out of the rather astounding reply of my right hon. Friend, is he aware that this is a very important aspect of the problem; that these men have no difficulty in obtaining ordinary civilian ration books for as long as they evade call-up; and will he tell the House how it is, if he was prepared the other night to answer a Debate on the Adjournment, why he had not asked his own Department to get this information for him?

Hon. Members

Speech.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member's Question is really getting intolerably long.