HC Deb 03 December 1947 vol 445 cc481-3

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Draft of the Special Order proposed to be made by the Minister of Fuel and Power, under the Gas Undertakings Acts, 1920 to 1934, on the application of the Pontypool Gas and Water Company, which was presented on 21st October and published, be approved."—[Mr. Pearson.]

8.37 P.m.

Sir John Mellor (Sutton Coldfield)

Is there not any Minister present to reply on these orders? I do not wish to raise any point on this order, but merely to ask whether my hon. Friend the Member for Altrincham and Sale (Mr. Erroll) is not to have an answer to the point he raised on the last order. I think we should have some explanation of the absence of any Minister to deal with any points hon. Members may wish to raise on these orders.

The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Woodburn)

Perhaps the hon. Member will raise his point, and then it will be dealt with.

Sir J. Mellor

I ask then for an explanation of this order.

Mr. Woodburn

If the hon. Member reads the order, he will see quite clearly what it stands for.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Draft of the Special Order proposed to be made by the Minister of Fuel and Power, under the Gas Undertakings Acts, 2920 to 1934, on the application of the Mayor, Aldermen and Burgesses of the Borough of Caernarvon, which was presented on 22nd October and published, be approved."—[Mr. Pearson.]

Sir J. Mellor

Is not the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Fuel and Power, or someone who represents that Department, present? [HON. MEMBERS: "He is here."] I am glad that he has arrived. No doubt he will now have an opportunity to apologise for not being here earlier.

Mr. Erroll

I have had some trouble in ascertaining the purposes of these various orders. I raised a question in regard to the Pontefract Electricity Special Order, but unfortunately the Parliamentary Secretary was not here to answer my remarks. I should like to raise a similar point in regard to this order. It has been impossible for me to find, in the Library or anywhere else, any information about these orders, and why they are necessary, especially in this case, in view of the fact that the industry is to be nationalised in the current Session of Parliament. I think that we are entitled to some explanation why these orders are necessary.

8.40 p.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Fuel and Power (Mr. Robens)

Some time ago a regulation was made to enable my right hon. Friend to increase the maximum price of gas. That did not apply to undertakings which had authority by Statute to increase the price since the Defence Regulations were brought in. Therefore, we could not use the power under Regulation 56 of the Defence General Regulations to authorise an increase in price, and this method had to be adopted. The borough of Caernarvon is suffering from the same disability as many other gas undertakings, namely, an increase in the price of raw materials. This has made neces- sary an increase in the price of gas to bring it beyond the maximum statutory price. This order is to enable the borough to recoup itself in accordance with the regulation which the House previously approved in respect of general undertakings.

8.42 p.m.

Mr. Charles Williams (Torquay)

The Parliamentary Secretary deserves the thanks of the House for having come here and read his brief so well. He has made quite clear what has happened to the Caernarvon gas industry. It is that owing to the mismanagement of the Government the price of raw materials has gone up so that the poor unhappy citizens of that borough must pay. I thank the hon. Gentleman for showing so clearly that because of the incompetence of the Ministry of Fuel and Power the people of Caernarvon are having inflicted upon them this extra expense.

Resolved: That the Draft of the Special Order proposed to be made by the Minister of Fuel and Power, under the Gas Undertakings Acts, 1920 to 1934, on the application of the Spenborough Urban District Council, which was presented on 28th October and published, be approved."—[Mr. Pearson.]