HC Deb 29 April 1947 vol 436 cc1879-82

11.45 p.m.

Mr. Barnes

I beg to move, in page 5, line 8, at the end, to insert "with due regard to safety of operation."

We had a very long discussion in Committee on this matter. At times it became, I think, rather confused. Hon. and right hon. Gentlemen tried to persuade me to insert the word "safe" and I took the view on that occasion—and further examination of the problem has confirmed my judgment—that it would be a very unwise thing to do. The railway companies of this country have always approached this problem of the safety of their passengers with a great sense of responsibility, and I think one could emphasise the fact that the Commission would not only carry on the tradition but, as far as possible, desire to improve on it. Further, in the Ministry of Transport, there is an inspection department which is responsible for promoting, in every way, the safety of the travelling public. Nevertheless, taking these matters into consideration, it occurred to me that I could meet the general sense of the discussion in Committee by inserting these words. I should like to read the Subsection as it will be with these words inserted: It shall be the general duty of the Commission so to exercise their powers under this Act as to provide, or secure or promote the provision of, an efficient, adequate, economical and properly integrated systems of public inland transport and port facilities within Great Britain for passengers and goods, with due regard to safety of operation.

Mr. P. Thorneycroft

I thank the right hon. Gentleman on behalf of my hon. Friends for introducing this Amendment. We did, in fact, devote a whole morning in Committee to discussing those words or something approximating to them. I am particularly pleased to see the Solicitor-General in his place, because he spent a long time explaining that the introduction of those words would bring the whole legal system of this country into utter confusion. We are glad, however, to see that these legal difficulties have been resolved and that the words are now included.

Mr. Henry Strauss (Combined English Universities)

I suppose these words are all right, but I do not know what the word "operation" means. I should have thought that "with due regard to safety" would have been suitable or "with due regard to the safety of the public" but why do you want "with due regard to safety of operation"? It leaves me completely in the dark.

Mr. Assheton

We are grateful to the Minister for what he has done. I hope the anxieties of my hon. and learned Friend behind me have not much in them, because after the great length of time we devoted to this matter in Committee, it is a solace to us to realise, that the Government, through the Commission, do intend at any rate to operate the railways of this country as safely as they have been operated under private enterprise.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Barnes

I beg to move, in page 5, line i6, at the end, to insert: (2) Where the Commission are for the time being providing regular goods transport services of different kinds available between the same points, it shall be their duty to allow any person desiring transport for his goods between those points freedom to choose such of the services so provided as he considers most suitable to his needs: Provided that nothing in this Subsection shall be construed as—

  1. (a) imposing on the Commission any obligation as to the provision or continued provision (either at all or to any particular extent) of any, or of any particular form of, goods transport service between any particular points; or
  2. (b) preventing the Commission from making charges which differ according to the requirements made as respects the kinds of goods transport services which are to be used."
This, again, covers a very lengthy discussion which we had in Committee on the right of the trader to choose the service of transport which he desired. In this Amendment I make the position perfectly clear, but it is desirable to put in the reservation that while the trader will have the opportunity to choose his service within the services provided by the Commission, it does not give him a right to the continuance of any service, the enlargement of any service, or the continuance of any service at the same rate.

Mr. P. Thorneycroft

While we thank the right hon. Gentleman for introducing any words into the Bill aimed at continuing the freedom of choice of transport which has so far existed under private enterprise, I believe that the words of the Amendment do little more than pay lip service to that freedom. The new Subsection says in so many words that freedom of choice for the user will exist but the Commission can cut off any service they like at any moment, so that there will not be any choice at all. Alternatively, it says that if the Commission wish to dissuade any particular form of traffic from going to any particular form of transport, they can put up the price as high as they like, so that choice will no longer be available. Our view remains that little freedom of choice will be left to the user of transport.

Mr. Mitchison

Both those conditions apply at present. It is now open to private enterprise to put up charges, or to withdraw a service. What is being done here is to preserve, for the merchant, the liberty he has in that respect.

Amendment agreed to.

The Solicitor-General (Sir Frank Soskice)

I beg to move, in page 5, line 25, at the end, to insert: (3) Nothing in this section shall be construed as imposing on the Commission, either directly or indirectly, any form of duty or liability enforceable by proceedings before any court or tribunal to which they would not otherwise be subject. This Amendment relates to one already accepted to line 8. It was pointed out in Committee that there was some doubt about the measure of liability of the Cornmission, in respect of road transport accidents. The Amendment seeks to ensure that their liability shall be the same with the introduction of the words of the 'earlier Amendment, as it would be without them.

Mr. Oliver Poole

I hope that the acting Leader of the House will note that the last batch of Amendments resulted from our deliberations in Committee, and, that being so, that he will never again accuse us of wasting time.

Mr. Henry Strauss

May I ask the Solicitor-General if, without these words, people would be at liberty to drive dangerously?

Amendment agreed to.