HC Deb 24 October 1946 vol 428 cc38-44
The Secretary of State for War (Mr. Bellenger)

With your permission, Mr. Speaker, and the permission of the House, I should like to make a statement on infantry reorganisation. Owing to the changed commitments of the postwar Army, and in the light of war experience, it has been found necessary to modify the prewar infantry regimental system, commonly known as the Cardwell system, which has been found too rigid for modern conditions. In view of the great traditions and fighting records of the various infantry regiments, however, it has been decided that the regimental system shall remain as a feature of the postwar Army. To achieve greater flexibility in the flow of reinforcements in war and to overcome difficulty of posting in peace, it is proposed to group the regiments into 15 separate groups based on territorial or traditional affinity. For the purpose of enlistment, the group will now become the corps in place of the regiment and the Royal Warrant will be amended accordingly. However, wherever possible, soldiers will be posted to battalions of the regiments of their choice. The modern organisation of the postwar Army, involving the inclusion of armoured and airborne formations, will ultimately result in a reduction of the number of infantry battalions required.

It is not, however, proposed to disband any regular infantry battalions of the line. It is intended to introduce a scheme whereby a certain number of regular battalions will be placed in suspended animation when a reduction becomes necessary. Suspended animation involves the relegation of a battalion to a reserve category, with no officers or men borne on its establishment. It is not proposed that battalions shall stay in suspended animation permanently but that they shall be changed over from time to time, the changes to coincide with reliefs of battalions in overseas stations.

Notwithstanding the introduction of the group system, it is not intended to abolish the old prewar regimental depots. These will be incorporated in primary training centres, which will be formed in the location of prewar infantry regimental depots. Recruits of all arms of the service will receive their first six weeks basic training in these primary training centres. The recruit, other than the regular enlistment, will, at this stage, belong to the General Service Corps, and the training carried out will be common to all arms. During this period the recruit will also pass through personnel selection tests to determine his general intelligence grading and, in the case of non-regular enlistments only, the arm of the service for which he is most suited. On completion of this six weeks primary training the recruit will then go to the corps training centre of the arm of the service for which he has been selected, and will there complete his recruit's training. It will be seen that, as the primary training centre handles all arms, it cannot in itself provide, as in the past, a regimental link with the county. For this reason, it is proposed to retain, at the primary training centre, a small infantry regimental depot.

Mr. Churchill

Are we right in understanding from the statement which the Secretary of State for War has made that, as regards the 15 groups into which enlistment for the infantry is divided, the recruits for any of them will be distributed, without the right to go into any particular regiment in that group?

Mr. Bellenger

In the case of the regular enlistments, they will be given every opportunity to be posted to the regiment of their own choice. In the case of those called up under the National Service Acts, we shall, of course, pay due regard to family traditions, and there are many dating back for many years, particularly amongst other ranks. We shall do what we can to put them in the regiment of their choice. Of course, they will belong to the General Service Corps at first, and will then be distributed according to the requirements of the Army.

Mr. Churchill

A certain priority will be given to volunteers who wish to go to particular regiments? That emphasis will be retained?

Mr. Bellenger

Yes, Sir.

Mr. Churchill

Even in the groups?

Mr. Bellenger

Yes, Sir.

Sir Ralph Glyn

Will any difference be made in regard to such units as are not on a territorial basis, such as the Foot Guards and Rifle Regiments? Will their traditions be safeguarded under the scheme?

Mr. Bellenger

Yes, Sir. Their traditions will be safeguarded. The Guards, perhaps, are in a rather different category, and it has not yet been decided whether certain battalions shall be disbanded altogether. Consultations are proceeding.

Mr. Scollan

Does this statement mean that the present practice of calling up skilled engineers and other skilled tradesmen of various kinds, and sending them to infantry regiments, denying them the right to go to regiments where they are likely to carry out a certain amount of work at their own trades, is to be stopped?

Mr. Bellenger

No, Sir. We shall make every use of these men with particular skill by posting them to those corps where they are suitable, but, obviously, we have to fill the ranks of the infantry, and we cannot provide places for all these skilled men as we should have liked to do.

Mr. Churchill

Will these matters be included in the White Paper, and be open for discussion in the Debate next week?

Mr. Bellenger

I think the White Paper has already been published, and I do not think it makes any reference to these matters.

Mr. Churchill

Does it make no reference, for instance, to the cadre system of the Army? Surely, it is not possible to consider the organisation of the Army at home without reference to the abandonment of the cadre system, following the withdrawal of our troops from India?

Mr. Bellenger

I should not like to express any opinion whether that matter would be in Order in the Debate. That is, I should say, a matter for the Chair.

Mr. Speaker

I have not been able to give the matter much study, though I have discussed it this morning, but I rather gather that the question of this rearrangement of the Army would be out of Order in the two days' Debate next week That is my impression, and I want to suggest, if I may, that this is an important matter, and, naturally, I should have thought the Government would be giving time, in due course, for it to be discussed.

Mr. Churchill

On a point of Order. Would it not be for the general convenience of the House, since we are giving two full days' to the question of defence organisation, that the vital question connected with the abandonment of the cadre system, which would be natural on the withdrawal of our garrison from India, and also its effect on the Army system at home, and the period of service here, should be included in the scope of the discussion; and would it not be right for the Government to put down a Motion, which covered both these aspects?

Mr. Speaker

I hesitate to take part in this Debate further, but perhaps, I might suggest that as the Government have given two days to one subject, they might quite easily split it up and give one day to the reorganisation of the Army and the other day to the central organisation of defence.

Mr. Rankin

I would like clarification on one point. Do I understand from the statement that the Secretary of State for War has made, in so far as the allocation of prospective soldiers to various regiments is concerned, that there is to be a difference or discrimination between the voluntary recruit and the conscript?

Mr. Bellenger

Yes, Sir. I think we are bound to pay attention to the personal wishes of the soldier who wishes to volunteer, in so far as we are able to do So.

Mr. Hopkin Morris

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman if, in the new system of grouping, he will give an assurance that all the Welsh regiments will be together in one group?

Mr. Bellenger

Yes, Sir. We are endeavouring to group them on a territorial basis, among other things.

Viscount Hinchingbrooke

Is the Secretary of State in a position to make some reference to the Territorial Army today? In particular, is it intended to maintain the prewar first line battalions and regiments of the Territorial Army on full establishment?

Mr. Bellenger

I would rather not make a statement today on that particular issue, although I rather think that the point made by the noble Lord has already been taken into account.

Colonel Gomme-Duncan

How soon can we expect the details of these 15 groups, and information whether there will be any groups in Scotland, and, if so, how many? Further, may I ask whether, not only in Scotland but elsewhere, there will be such things as light infantry groups and those of a similar kind?

Mr. Churchill

And kilts?

Mr. Bellenger

I will consider the best way of giving publicity to the point raised by the hon. and gallant Gentleman.

Mr. David Renton

In view of the reply given to the noble Lord about the Territorial Army, will the Minister give an undertaking that no Territorial unit will meanwhile be disbanded, and that nothing worse than suspended animation will take place?

Mr. Bellenger

The Territorial Army is being reconstituted from 1st January next. I would not like to make any extended statement today, but would prefer to confine my remarks to the Regular Army.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Can the Minister say whether, and, if so, how, the scheme affects the position of officers? Will they be posted to regiments of infantry or to one of these groups?

Mr. Bellenger

The main point that I have endeavoured to bring out in my remarks was that, as far as possible, we shall post men to regiments within the groups, but, of course, circumstances may arise when it would not be possible to reinforce regiments from their own people, and, therefore, they would be reinforced within the group. Officers would come in on the same basis as other ranks.

Brigadier Low

Will the Minister give the same assurance about the Rifle Brigade and the King's Royal Rifles as he gave about the Foot Guards; and will he bear in mind, when making his final decision about the Territorial Army, that it would be very desirable to group the Territorial Army in the same way as the Regulars?

Mr. Bellenger

I have noted the remarks of the hon. and gallant Gentleman. The Rifle Brigade and the King's Royal Rifle Corps will be grouped together.

Colonel Clarke

Will it be possible, under the new organisation, to retain the old infantry of the line numbers, which are far older than the Territorial designation?

Mr. Bellenger

I should prefer to have notice of that.

Major Bramall

In view of the great interest taken in the details of this matter in all parts of the House, may I take it that the Minister will be publishing a White Paper which will give these details?

Mr. Bellenger

My very full statement will, of course, appear in HANSARD, but if there is any additional information that the hon. and gallant Gentleman would like I will be only too happy to give it. We will publish the groups.

Mr. Walker-Smith

Will the Minister say what effect this scheme will have on the machinery of records offices? Will it be by regiments or by groups? Will he also give an assurance that Territorial regiments will have as much consideration as the territorial battalions of Regular regiments?

Mr. Bellenger

The answer to the last part of the Question is, "Yes, Sir." As regards the first part, I am not in a position to give an answer today, but if the hon. Gentleman will put a Question down, I will give him an answer later.

Mr. C. S. Taylor

Is the Minister aware that, about two years ago, he was pressing the Government for a statement on the future of the Territorial Army?

Mr. Bellenger

That may very well be, but I was often pressing the Government of those days over other things, too.

Major Legge-Bourke

Can the Minister say if the total number of battalions, airborne and infantry, is to be less or more than the total of infantry battalions today; and if there are going to be fewer, will he consider putting into suspended animation, in the Airborne Division, those battalions which may be—[Interruption.]

Mr. Emrys Roberts

While noting that Welsh regiments will be grouped together, will the Minister give an assurance that all persons recruited from Wales will, in fact, be posted to regiments in the Welsh group?

Mr. Bellenger

I have already dealt with that particular aspect in my answer.

Mr. Roberts

Then we can take it that this will be so?

Colonel Ponsonby

As the Territorial Associations all over the country want to know how to make their plans, will the right hon. Gentleman indicate some date on which he will be able to make a definite statement about the Territorial Army?

Mr. Bellenger

I cannot give a date at the moment, but I can assure the hon. and gallant Gentleman that consultations are now going on with the county associations.

Colonel Wheatley

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the officers' and sergeants' messes will be able to store their property during the period of their suspended animation?

Mr. Bellenger

The property of the regiments will, of course, be stored at the depots.