HC Deb 17 October 1946 vol 427 cc1061-7
Mr. Churchill

May I ask the Leader of the House whether he has any statement to make on the Business for next week?

Mr. H. Morrison

Yes, Sir. The Business for next week will be as follows:

Monday, 21st October—A Debate will take place on housing on the Motion for the Adjournment of the House.

Tuesday, 22nd October, and Wednesday, 23rd October—A Debate will take place on foreign affairs on the Motion for the Adjournment of the House.

Thursday, 24th October—Debate on forestry on a Government Motion.

Friday, 25th October—Consideration of the Lords Amendment to the Cable and Wireless Bill; Second Reading of the Supreme Court of Judicature (Circuit Officers) Bill [Lords] and of the Public Notaries (War Service of Articled Clerks) Bill, if received from another place; Motions to approve the Greenwich Hospital Accounts and outstanding Purchase Tax (Exemptions) and Import Duties Orders.

During the week we shall ask the House to consider the Motion relating to Parliamentary elections.

Mr. Churchill

Can the right hon. Gentleman state when the last item he has mentioned, the Motion relating to Parliamentary elections, will be taken?

Mr. H. Morrison

I am afraid I am not quite certain yet, but I do not imagine it will be a lengthy matter. In any case, it will be taken as early as possible. I will see that the usual channels are informed, and if necessary, the House. The actual time is not yet fixed.

Mr. Churchill

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider that Friday would probably be the most appropriate occasion, when there would be time to take this matter?

Mr. H. Morrison

We will certainly give that suggestion consideration. I am much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Ellis Smith

I wish to ask the Leader of the House two questions. First, shall we receive a full statement on the Paris Conference from the spokesman for the Government, and secondly, between now and next Session, will my right hon. Friend consider the advisability of the restoration of Private Members' time, and if it cannot be restored in full, will he consider restoring at least the right of Members to the ballot, in order that the House may give consideration to the great issues which are being considered in the country?

Mr. H. Morrison

In regard to the first point, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will take part in the Debate, and I have no doubt he will make a report on the proceedings of the Paris Conference. The second point raised by my hon. Friend is premature at this stage, and I have nothing to say about it.

Mr. Ellis Smith

Will my right hon. Friend consider, between now and next Session, the suggestion which has been made?

Mr. H. Morrison

I always consider every suggestion which is made.

Mr. Frank Byers

In view of the very restricted Debate which we had on Monday last, will the Government give time for the House to debate fully the question of the "closed shop"?

Mr. H. Morrison

I see no immediate prospect of that, Sir. I should have thought that there might be quite a full opportunity in the Debate on the Address, but I am afraid that in the remaining period of this Session, I see no opportunity of providing special time.

Mr. Henderson Stewart

Can the Leader of the House indicate today the general sense of the Motion on forestry which the Government intend to put on the Paper, so that we may be advised in advance?

Mr. H. Morrison

I think it will be a Motion to approve the policy of the Government in relation to forestry which was announced some time ago by the Minister of Agriculture.

Mr. R. S. Hudson

May we assume that the Minister of Agriculture will explain in fairly considerable detail what the policy is, so that we may have a really informed Debate?

Mr. H. Morrison

I should think that would be so. I do not want to commit my right hon. Friend about the order of things, and so on, but I think the right hon. Gentleman's suggestion is not unreasonable.

Mr. Austin

In view of the importance of the foreign affairs Debate prior to the Foreign Secretary going to America, and bearing in mind the fact that in past years so many hon. Members on both sides of the House have been unsuccessful in their attempts to speak on foreign affairs, will the Leader of the House give consideration to suspending the Rule on Tuesday night, so that hon. Members on all sides, who wish to do so, can take part in the Debate?

Mr. H. Morrison

I think that probably my hon. Friend means, when he talks about suspending the Rule, not an unqualified suspension—[HON. MEMBERS: "Why not?"] There are two reasons. When all-night Sittings take place, the newspapers are full of complaints about it, and so are hon. Members. It is no good being brave at Question time and not so brave the next morning. Secondly, I do not think it would be a good thing, on the second day of an important Debate—[HON. MEMBERS: "The first day."] I am talking about the consequences of the first day and the first night. I do not think it would be a good thing for the second day's Debate that the House should have sat all the night before, having the second day's Debate on a matter of such vital importance as foreign affairs; but I would consider a restricted suspension of the Rule. We would consider quite a restricted suspension.

Mr. Churchill

We are all agreed that some additional time should be given on the Tuesday night, but I am entirely in agreement with the right hon. Gentleman that it would be a great mistake to have an all-night Sitting on foreign affairs.

Mr. McGovern

May I ask the Leader of the House whether there is any prospect of an early statement and Debate on the continuation of conscription in this country and the future of military service for young men?

Mr. H. Morrison

No, Sir. I know of no happenings that would require a statement at this time. What the future has in store, I cannot say.

Mr. McGovern

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that a large number of people are very perturbed at the continuation of conscription so long after the war, without any very definite statement from the Government, and that they feel it is high time the Government made up their mind as to the future of conscription in peace time?

Mr. H. Morrison

As to the temporary continuation of compulsory military service, a full statement was made about that by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour some time ago. As to the nature of the peacetime Army, that is another matter which requires fuller consideration, and the Government are not in a position to make any statement at this time. I quite agree that people may be thinking about it, and may even be perturbed, and if it is any comfort to the hon. Gentleman, the Government are perturbed about a lot of things relating to it, too.

Mr. Snadden

Will the right hon. Gentleman give time for a Debate on agriculture, in view of the fact that there is on the Order Paper still a Motion to approve the Government's agricultural policy, and also because of the acute position that will arise when German prisoners return to Germany?

Mr. H. Morrison

It is not our fault that the Motion is still on the Order Paper. It was intended to be disposed of in the Debate that took place, but I think somebody talked it out. I do not complain about that, but we must not be blamed for it. I do not see any occasion for a new Debate on agriculture. There will be plenty of opportunities next Session.

Mr. R. S. Hudson

May I remind the Leader of the House that we were promised, at an earlier stage, an additional day and we never had it, and that it was the Parliamentary Secretary who talked out the Motion? We are still deprived of the additional day which was originally promised.

Mr. H. Morrison

The Debate on forestry will be the second day.

Mr. Hudson

Oh, no.

Mr. H. Morrison

It also is related to the growth of things from the soil. There was an idea earlier on that these two subjects might be taken together. Now they are being taken separately. I think we are treating the House handsomely on the subject.

Mr. Hudson

If the right hon. Gentleman will look up the records, he will find that we were promised another day for agriculture, and a separate day for forestry. We were promised another day for agriculture.

Mr. Stokes

Despite the sudden conversion of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Woodford (Mr. Churchill) to a dislike for all-night Sittings, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he will reconsider really seriously the suggestion which has been made? There are many young people here who would be quite prepared to sit all night in order to debate things in which they believe, and this would not hurt the Debate in any way. Secondly, may I revert to the question raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke (Mr. Ellis Smith) with regard to Private Members' time? Will my right hon. Friend give us some assurance that this matter will be considered before the next Session, bearing in mind that while we were prepared to give it up in order to allow Government Business to go through, it is nevertheless a very important part of Parliamentary procedure and we all wish to see it restored?

Mr. H. Morrison

My hon. Friend may rest assured that the question of Private Members' time will be considered, for the simple reason that it will have to be. If the Government decide to restore it, they will refrain from putting a Motion down to take it, and if they decide to take it, they will have to put a Motion down in that sense. I have a great respect for the Parliamentary prowess of my hon. Friend and the part he plays in this House, but I am bound to say that the idea that, on a foreign affairs Debate when every word matters, we should sit through the night, and go on next day and keep on talking, really shocks me. All-night Sittings may be unavoidable from time to time, but deliberately to plan for them does, as I say, really shock me.

Mr. Stokes

On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. May I ask your advice on this matter? Until quite recently it was the ordinary custom in this House that when the Rule was suspended, it was suspended indefinitely, and it was only during the wartime period that the present arrangement was adopted. It cannot suddenly be to the disadvantage of a foreign affairs or any other Debate, that there should be an all-night Sitting if hon. Members so desire. All that matters is whether hon. Members wish it or not.

Mr. Speaker

That is not a point of Order.

Mr. Stokes

I could not raise the point in any other way.

Mr. Speaker

I must point out that we are going very wide, and are discussing all kinds of things whereas really we should be discussing the Business of next week.

Mr. Janner

On Business, may I ask the Leader of the House whether, in the course of the foreign affairs Debate, there will be an opportunity of discussing the Palestinian situation; and, if not, will he provide another opportunity for this?

Mr. H. Morrison

What will be discussed is a matter for the Chair. The Debate will take place on the Motion for the Adjournment and the hon. Member can form his own estimate of what is possible and what is not, but, as I say, it is really a matter for the Chair.

Mr. Erroll

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it would be in Order to discuss the position in Germany during the Debate on foreign affairs?

Mr. H. Morrison

Germany being a foreign country, I should have thought it might be permissible.

Mr. Austin

May I ask my right hon. Friend, in the most reasonable and moderate manner I can, whether it is quite fair to the House, since we do sit all night on the Finance Bill—

Mr. Speake

I do not think we should argue that point any further.

Mr. George Thomas

May I ask my right hon. Friend if it is proposed to give the House an opportunity to discuss the Curtis Report with regard to the care of children?

Mr. H. Morrison

It is obvious that the Report must have the consideration of Ministers, and there are three Ministers at the moment who are directly involved. I imagine that when the Government have come to a conclusion about the Report, one of those Ministers will make a statement and perhaps we might consider it at that point.

Major Legge-Bourke

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is the intention of the Government that there shall be a Debate on the Defence White Paper; and, if so, whether it would be in Order to discuss conscription on that?

Mr. H. Morrison

On the latter point, I would say that that again is a matter for the Chair, but we can keep the point in mind. With regard to facilities for a Debate, there will have to be legislation in due course, but, on the other hand, it may be convenient to have an early discussion on the White Paper if suitable arrangements can be made. I think that if the hon. and gallant Member would raise that through the usual channels we could consider it.

Mr. Spence

May I ask the Leader of the House if the Secretary of State for Scotland will be present during the Debate on forestry since Scottish questions will be under discussion then?

Mr. H. Morrison

It is recognised that in the matter of forestry, Scotland is exceedingly important, and certainly the Secretary of State will be here.