HC Deb 12 November 1946 vol 430 cc3-4

"for the more effectual preventing Clandestine Outlawries"

Motion made, and Question proposed "That the Bill be now read the First time."

Mr. C. S. Taylor (Eastbourne)

Mr. Speaker—

Mr. Speaker

This is a non-debatable Measure and we cannot debate a Bill which is not before the House.

Mr. Taylor

On a point of Order. If I may very respectfully refer you, Mr. Speaker, to page 173 of Erskine May, it appears from it that in the year 1794 Mr. Sheridan raised a Debate upon the First Reading of this Bill and the then Mr. Speaker decided that he was in Order.

Mr. Speaker

I am afraid we are now in 1946.

Mr. W. J. Brown (Rugby)

Further to that point of Order which, I think, is a serious one. Is it not the case, Mr. Speaker, that the purpose of the Outlawries Bill is to insist upon the right of this House to discuss some item or other of its own business before going on to consider the King's Speech? I think that that is laid down in Erskine May, and in 1794 the then Mr. Speaker ruled that it was in Order for Mr. Sheridan to argue that the House should lead with some business other than the Outlawries Bill, and that it was within its right to deal with such other business before going on with the King's Speech. In the light of precedent, and in the light of the tradition of this House, may I respectfully request you, Mr. Speaker, to reconsider your Ruling?

Mr. Speaker

Standing Order No. 32 lays down this procedure, and it would not be in Order to ask me to put in another Measure instead of the Outlawries Bill. This is an old declaration of our rights and independence and is one of the links with the past. I should be very sorry to see it go.

Mr. Taylor

Further to that point of Order. My only object in rising was to give hon. Members, who, like myself, do not know the true reason why the Outlawries Bill is introduced at this time, some explanation of the reason for its introduction.

Mr. Speaker

I think I have stated my opinion quite clearly.

Mr. Brown

I wish to make a submission on the point of Order, if I may. It is that although through the centuries this Bill has become very much of a formality, as you yourself have said, there probably was a time when it was by no means a formal matter and when the House, before it spoke its mind, may well have desired to have guarantees on the subject of outlawry. That form of outlawry has now gone, but there are many other forms of outlawry—and especially the closed shop—which I submit it would be appropriate to discuss now.

Mr. Speaker

No doubt, a suitable time will be found to discuss the other forms of outlawry.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time.

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