HC Deb 25 July 1946 vol 426 cc353-4

Lords Amendment: In page 37, line 17, at end, insert: and it is hereby declared that the power to prescribe procedure includes power to make provision as to the representation of one person, at any hearing of a case, by another person whether having professional qualifications or not.

Mr. J. Griffiths

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

I indicated to the Committee, and to the House on Report stage, that it was my intention to permit this under regulation. In another place, the view was expressed that we ought to make a declaration to that effect, and I have no objection to that.

Mr. Manningham-Buller (Daventry)

I think the Minister will recollect that there was considerable discussion, on the earlier stages of the Bill, as to the right of representation of persons affected. This Amendment docs seem to me to go some way in the right direction, but I do think we ought to have a little more explanation from the Minister as to the way in which he intends to operate this power to make regulations. I take the view that any person should be entitled to be represented by any other person, whether qualified or not, in a matter of this sort, and that, really, it is not enabling people to put their cases before the tribunal correctly or fully, to say that they shall be limited in the choice of their advocates. I would ask the right hon. Gentleman: is it intended to give power of full representation at all hearings before the tribunal, or is it intended by regulation to limit the right of representation to particular cases? If it is to be limited to particular cases, how is the discretion to give the right of representation to be exercised? Is it to be the case that the chairman shall have the right, in certain circumstances, of saying, "In this particular case, because there appears now to be a point of law involved, we will allow you representation by a solicitor or barrister"? Or is it the case that applications can be made in advance for that purpose?

I should like to have an answer to these questions. If it be the case that a discretion is to be vested in the chairman, it appears to me that it will be very hard for him to exercise that discretion in practice, because very often important points of law do not emerge unless the evidence is correctly presented on questions of fact. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that difficulty, and that he will say it is his intention to give the widest possible powers of representation to people who desire to be represented.

10.0 p.m.

Mr. Griffiths

We had a long discussion about this on a previous occasion. My desire is to be perfectly fair, but at the same time I have to be careful that I do not destroy the whole basis of the scheme by converting these tribunals into a form of county court. I speak with many years' experience and I have been before tribunals and county courts. I admit there are cases where representation may be eminently desirable in the interests of the applicant and of the chairman, and I propose to provide for that by Regulation. Every worker who has come before a tribunal or a court cannot afford the money for legal representation. I want to preserve an atmosphere in which we can best handle these cases, and for that reason the Bill has been drawn up in this form.