HC Deb 15 July 1946 vol 425 cc943-7
Mr. Dalton

I beg to move, in page 4, line 3, after "vehicles," to insert "motor."

The purpose of this Amendment might not be obvious from the words employed, except to the hon. Member for Bodmin (Mr. D. Marshall), who is so expert on these matters, and who initiated the line of thought which has now run on to the Order Paper. The purpose is to extend to sailing vessels the benefit of the reduced rate of entertainments duty; that is the purpose of this Amendment, and the subsequent Amendment which is consequential to it. A good case was made out during the Committee stage for bringing sailing vessels and entertainment provided by races between sailing vessels on to the lower level. I hope that it will not be necessary to debate the matter at great length, because I have done here what I undertook to do at an earlier stage. I was asked whether the provision could be extended also to racing by motor boats, but I am unable to do that at this moment. There seems to me to be a special case for favourable treatment for sailing vessels and regattas involving races between sailing vessels, having regard to national necessity for a seafaring population. The manipulation of motors, whether on sea or on land, is a different question, and I do not think that this falls into the same category of urgency. I hope that the House will think it is right to discriminate in regard to sailing vessels, and that they should benefit from the reduced rates.

Mr. Douglas Marshall (Bodmin)

During the Committee stage I asked the Chancellor whether he would consider removing the word "vessels" in Clause 6. Quite naturally I had hoped that he would remove the word "vessels," as this then would have given the benefit to all vessels. But in moving my Amendment I stressed sailing vessels, and it was sailing vessels with which I was particularly concerned and, therefore, I am extremely glad that the Chancellor has included the word "motor", which will give sailing vessels the full benefit. There is one point I should like to make. At the end of my speech I referred to large vessels which had been launched going down the Clyde, the Mersey, or the Tyne on trial, but not necessarily on speed trial. I would like the Chancellor to give an assurance that he would not consider this, in any way, a speed trial, and that if occasion should arise, whereby people should be witnessing that spectacle under conditions of payment, they would not suffer from taxation in that direction. I think it would be possible for him to give that assurance, and I hope that he will.

7.0 p.m.

Mr. Peake

The Clause extends the benefit of the lower rate of Entertainments Duty to all games or sport, with certain exceptions, which are mentioned in the Clause. The exceptions are: other than the racing or trial of speed of animals, vehicles, vessels or aircraft. The right hon. Gentleman proposes to insert the word "motor" in front of the word "vessels", and that means that the racing or trial of speed of sailing vessels will only suffer the lower rate of Entertainments Duty. The point, therefore, to which, I think, we should have a clear reply, because the Clause as it now reads is not quite clear, is whether the word "motor," which he intends to insert in the Clause, applies to the word "aircraft" as well as to the word "vessels". The Clause will now read: Trial of speed of animals, vehicles, motor vessels or aircraft. There are two kinds of aircraft, the aircraft propelled by a motor, and the glider not propelled by the motor. It is extremely likely that in future, when gliding becomes more popular—and it is already popular in this country—there will be trials of speed by aircraft not propelled by motors, and I hope that it will be made quite clear that the insertion of the word "motor" in the Clause applies to aircraft as well as to vessels I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will get that point cleared up, because, otherwise, I am quite sure there will be confusion.

Mr. Beechman

I would like to express my great appreciation of the interest taken by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in sailing. There is no doubt that it is in these vessels that seamanship is learned, and the interest which the Chancellor has shown will be a great source of encouragement to the Sea Scouts and Sea Cadets. These movements are beginning to flourish again in the parts of the country which I know well. I refer, particularly, to the Sea Scouts, because the Sea Cadets were, of course, at work during the war. We have, I think, four or five regattas, which will be taking place in the near future in Cornwall. I shall, in any case, watch them with joy, which will now be increased by the action which the Chancellor of the Exchequer has taken.

Mr. C. Williams

I do not wish to quarrel with the hon. Member for St. Ives (Mr. Beechman), but I think that I should point out to the Chancellor of the Exchequer that he did not take the initiative in this matter, which was left to members for South-East Cornwall and the Tory Party. Having spent some time during the proceedings on the Bill in being critical, I now congratulate the Chancellor of the Exchequer without any qualification whatever. I appreciate tremendously the fact that he has, in this Amendment, followed up our Amendment dealing with sailing vessels, because, after all, they provide one of the cleanest of all sports. I happen to represent in Torbay, Dartmouth and Brixham, places which have the best sailing regattas in the whole world. They are, of course, acknowledged as far superior to the Isle of Wight and other minor yachting centres, such as the Clyde. I hope that when the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in a comparatively short time, gives up his office, as he certainly will, he will go to Torbay and enjoy himself there for the rest of a long life.

Mr. Dalton

I am sure that the matter of the launching of vessels, which was referred to by an hon. Member, would not be regarded as a speed trial. As regards gliders, that is frankly a point which had not occurred to me. We have not as yet done very much in the way of competitive sailing in the air by gliders, but I will look into the matter, although I think that a motor is required in the beginning. It seems to me that the glider is not quite on all fours with a sailing vessel in this respect. There are possibilities of lenient administration which might be called in, and if it should turn out that there was an inclination to treat gliding competitions more severely in terms of taxation than sailing boats, I would be prepared to take steps to correct it.

Mr. Marshall

May I thank the Chancellor of the Exchequer for that assurance, and take the opportunity, in view of the charming speech of the hon. Member for Torquay (Mr. C. Williams), of recommending the Chancellor to visit Fowey and Looe?

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Dalton

I beg to move, in page 4, line 7, leave out from "themselves," to the end of the Subsection.

This is consequential.

Captain Crookshank

I understood that this had reference to boat races and more particularly such contests as university boat races. Is that correct?

Mr. Dalton

No, it is a different point.

Mr. I. J. Pitman

As a one-time member of the London Gliding Club, I should like to thank the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the hopes which he holds out in regard to gliding, and to assure him that competitive sport of that kind can take place without a motor. I have helped to launch gliders by elastic and other means and enjoyed a sailing meeting of that kind.

Amendment agreed to