CLAUSE 51.—(Expenses of Part III.) (Hansard, 8 July 1946)

Mr. Ivor Thomas
I beg to move, in page 40, line 31, after "in," to insert "Subsection (1) of."
This Amendment is consequential to those which we have just accepted in Clause 35, and relates to Northern Ireland. If this Amendment is carried, it will mean that the Treasury will have power to direct that the expenses of the Ministry of Commerce in Northern Ireland under Clause 28 shall, to such extent as is proper, either be borne by the Ministry of Civil Aviation or by the Ministry of Supply. There is no need for us, in this consequential Amendment, to go into the question of how the Minister of Commerce for Northern Ireland shall apportion his own expenses between himself and the Road Fund of Northern Ireland, because that is a matter for legislation by the Northern Ireland Government.

Mr. Ivor Thomas
I beg to move, in page 40, line 34, to leave out from "Ireland," to the end of the Subsection, and to insert: in consequence of the passing of Part II of this Act. 63 This is only a drafting Amendment, relating again to Northern Ireland. It brings the language of Clause 51, Subsection (9) into conformity with Clause 35, Subsection (1). A more important thing is that Clause 51, Subsection (9) is wrong as it stands in speaking -only of the expenses incurred by the Ministry of Commerce under Section 28 of the Bill, because the Ministry of Commerce may incur expenses under Clause 32, which deals with the rehousing of displaced persons.

§ Mr. Lennox-Boyd
Before we conclude the business consequent on the recommittal of the Bill, and in the interests of accuracy, I should like to point out, and to remind the Committee, that out of the 10 Amendments it has passed, seven have been introduced to meet the convenience of the Government; and that of the other three, two of them, in our view, could have been brought in as ordinary Amendments on the Report stage. I say this only because it was suggested at the start that there was something ungenerous in the Opposition's opposition to the recommittal of the Bill.

Mr. Thomas
It is a matter of arithmetic. The hon. Gentleman has counted each Amendment separately, and I was lumping together those which were consequential. But I make no complaint.

§ Mr. Lennox-Boyd
I shall not press the point.

Mr. McKie
Before we part with this Clause, I think the Committee would be well advised to ask the Parliamentary Secretary to clear up, at all, events, a few points in this exceedingly long, cumbersome, comprehensive and far reaching Clause. I regret that there is no hon. Member representing Northern Ireland in the Committee at the present moment; but, perhaps, as there is not, and as I am the Member who represents the constituency in Great Britain nearest the province of Ulster, I may be allowed to make a few observations. No doubt, I shall have assistance and support from 64 my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Ayr Burghs (Sir T. Moore), who, of course, has the honour and privilege of being an Ulsterman. I am rather appalled by this Clause. It has no fewer than 15 Subsections; and some of them are very long and some of them contain numerous references. It is not my intention to ask the Parliamentary Secretary or the Attorney-General to try to unravel all the referential statements in this Clause. I feel sure that many of my hon. Friends on this side of the Committee will join with me in deploring, once again, that we have such a cumbersome Clause in a Bill of this kind. But I should like to ask questions with regard to three of the Subsections.
Subsection (4) states that: Subsection (6) of section twenty-seven of this Act shall not extend to Northern Ireland."? Clause 27 gives power to the Minister to obtain rights over land, and it is only Subsection (6) of the Clause which it is proposed to ask the Committee to agree to leave out. I will not weary the Committee by reading out this Clause, but I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to give us the reason why he thinks fit to ask the Committee to agree to this deletion now.
Then I should like the Parliamentary Secretary, in connection with Subsection (5) of this Clause, why he is about to ask the Committee to agree that the words in Clause 28 repairable by the inhabitants at large should not remain in the Bill, and why there should be substituted for them, so far as Northern Ireland is concerned, the words: maintainable at the cost of a county or county district as the case may be. I do not know what has moved the Parliamentary Secretary or the Government to propose that there should be this difference between Ulster people and all the other inhabitants of Great Britain who will be interfered with under this Clause 28. Is it that Ulster is obtaining some undue share of benefit? I hope that, in saying that, I shall not be accused of wishing to be unfair to Ulster. I am only anxious that Ulster should have her rights and liberties fully protected. I know she is very well able to stand up for herself. I recall the old words "Ulster will fight, and Ulster will be right." But as there 65 is no hon. Gentleman present who sits for Ulster, I should like to ask why it is proposed that there should be this difference?
There is one further point on which I wish to ask for some more information, anent this exceedingly long and cumbersome Clause. Why is it proposed that Clause 46 shall not extend to Northern Ireland? That is the Clause which deals with the registration of certain areas in the register of local land charges. I do not know why, but I am anxious to know why, the Clause shall not extend to Northern Ireland. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will be able to persuade us that it is a good thing, that there should be any difference with regard to the registration of land in Northern Ireland, and in the rest of the United Kingdom. I confess that I do not understand. I should have thought it was just as important to have a very careful record of changes in the ownership of land in Northern Ireland, as in any other part of the United Kingdom. I await with eagerness the reply of the hon. Gentleman on this point, and also, of course, on other points on which the hon. Gentleman or the Attorney-General may see fit, at this moment, to enlighten the Committee, if, indeed, he has the necessary information at his disposal.

§ Sir T. Moore
Having been, as it were, goaded to take part in this Debate, I would only ask one question of the Parliamentary Secretary, and that is, Can we assume that the Government of Northern Ireland have been fully consulted about all the arrangements set out in Clause 51, and have they agreed in principle to the insertion of these provisions?

Mr. Ivor Thomas
The Clause is long, admittedly, and complex, but it is not contentious. It is a drafting Clause designed to bring this Bill into conformity with the many enactments which have been made concerning Northern Ireland and, in particular, with the fact that there are a Northern Ireland Government and Legislature which are empowered, within their own sphere, to do certain things. It would be wrong of us to exercise those powers for them. The Government of Northern Ireland, naturally, have been consulted, in the usual way, about this matter. I do not think there is anything in the least degree contentious here. The hon. Gentleman asked me about Subsec- 66 ton (5). It is a very long Subsection. He asked about the words: repairable by the inhabitants at large. They are only to secure——

Mr. McKie
I asked why the hon. Gentleman proposed to leave out "repairable by the inhabitants at large" and to substitute: maintainable at the cost of a county or county district as the case may be.

Mr. Thomas
The answer is that the words "repairable by the inhabitants at large" are traditional in England and Wales and Scotland; but in Northern Ireland the words that have been inserted are the appropriate words. I think the hon. Member for Londonderry (Sir R. Ross), who is in the Committee, will agree. So, also, in the case of any other point of detail, it is designed to apply this Bill to the special circumstances of Northern Ireland.

§ Sir Ronald Ross (Londonderry)
It is quite correct, as the Parliamentary Secretary has said, that this long and complicated Clause has been agreed with the appropriate authorities in Northern Ireland. I do not think there is any contentious matter in it, and I hope that it will he passed. There is, however, one point which I should like to mention. I am sure that the Parliamentary Secretary will agree with me that in this matter the Government of Northern Ireland have cooperated, not only in letter but in the spirit, to try to make British civil aviation a success so far as it lies within their power.

§ Mr. Deputy-Speaker (Mr. Hubert Beaumont)
Mr. Speaker has instructed me to report the following to the House: Clause 49, page 35, lines 13 to 15. It has been brought to my notice that the Standing Committee, which considered the Bill, inserted the following words: 'local authority' means the council of a county, county borough, metropolitan borough or county district, or the Common Council of the City of London. Owing to an error, this Amendment has been wrongfully printed in the amended 67 Bill now before the House. It seemed unnecessary to reprint the whole Bill to correct this error and I propose, therefore, to direct that lines 13 to 15, on page 35, be altered so as to conform with the Amendment as inserted by the Standing Committee.

§ Mr. Lennox-Boyd
Can I draw attention to one further consequence of the spate of legislation to which we are now being subjected, namely, the strain thrown on His Majesty's Stationery Office?

§ Mr. Deputy-Speaker
It is not permissible to do so.

§ Mr. Lennox-Boyd
Am I not entitled to raise the question of whether the Bill should not be reprinted? Is that in Order?

§ Mr. Deputy-Speaker
I cannot give that permission. The hon. Member can raise that with Mr. Speaker. I have been instructed to read Mr. Speaker's decision to the House and it cannot be debated.

Mr. Ivor Thomas
To introduce a lighter note, I would point out that the City Remembrancer drew this to my attention. I am glad he was performing his function of remembering.

§ Sir T. Moore
Can the Opposition reserve any rights in this matter?

§ Mr. Deputy-Speaker
I would point out that there is no Question before the House. I now call on Major Vernon.