HC Deb 12 December 1946 vol 431 cc1310-8
5. Mr. George Thomas

asked the Minister of Education how many students are in receipt of grants under the Further Education and Training Scheme; and whether she is aware of the continued delay in the payment of these grants

7. Mr. H. Hynd

asked the Minister of Education what is being done to expedite payment of grants under the Government's Further Education and Training Scheme.

9. Mr. Chetwynd

asked the Minister of Education if she is aware of the distress caused to many students by the delay in payment of Further Education and Training grants; whether she will state the number of awards made and the number of payments that have been paid; and what steps she is taking to effect an immediate settlement of outstanding awards.

11. Mr. Norman Bower

asked the Minister of Education if she is aware of the hardship caused through the delay in the payment of grants under the Further Education and Training Scheme, and if she will take steps to see that these grants are paid punctually when they are due.

13. Mr. Champion

asked the Minister of Education if she will take immediate administrative steps to speed up the assess- ment and the payment of grants to ex-Service students, some of whom have been waiting for five months since the date of their application.

25. Commander Noble

asked the Minister of Education what steps she is taking to remove the delays in assessment and payment of Further Education and Training and maintenance grants to ex-Service students; and if she is aware of the hardship caused by the present delays.

27. Mr. Stubbs

asked the Minister of Education the number of students entitled to Further Education and Training grants who have not received any payments; if she is aware that many have been compelled to apply to the unemployment assistance board for financial assistance; and when the students concerned may expect to receive the grants due to them.

30. Mr. Heathcoat Amory

asked the Minister of Education whether she will take some immediate action to mitigate the financial hardship imposed on many ex-Service students by the continued delay in settlement and payment of training grants.

32. Mr. Henry Strauss

asked the Minister of Education whether she is aware of the anxiety and hardship caused by delays in the payment of grants to ex-Service university students under the Further Education and Training Scheme; and if she will make a statement.

Miss Wilkinson

The answer is rather long, but it will not take as long as it would to answer all the Questions individually.

Up to 6th December over 22,000 awards had been made since the Scheme began, of which 19,897 are current. Of the latter, over 17,000, either as termly instalments or as initial payments, had been paid up to 6th December, and the remainder were in process of being paid. In addition, new awards were being made at the rate of about 800 a week. Fresh applications are, however, being received every day from students who actually began their courses before they applied. Over 7,000 such applications have been received since this term began.

Every application has to be considered on its merits and every award has to be calculated separately in relation to the resources and needs of the candidate. As candidates are not listed under particular institutions until awards are made to them, I am sorry that I cannot investigate general charges of delay. I am, of course, very glad to look into particular cases where a candidate considers that there has been undue delay, but I must warn hon. Members that these individual investigations hold up the process of assessment and payment.

A serious cause of delay is the fact that many colleges do not return promptly the certificates of attendance and the students' undertakings, without which my Department has no authority to pay maintenance allowances. I have already asked the colleges, if there is likely to be any delay about fees, not to hold up the form for the students' maintenance. I am now instructing the colleges that the certificates of attendance and the undertakings of the students must be returned at once without waiting to calculate the amount of the tuition fees. If these instructions are followed by the colleges and by the students, there should be no undue delay in making the normal termly payments to the students.

Mr. H. Hynd

Apart from any possible delay there may be on the part of the colleges, is the Minister aware that quite often students have to wait a considerable time even in order to get into the colleges, and that in those cases they find it very difficult to live in the meantime?

Miss Wilkinson

I am sorry, but that is not part of this Question. The supplementary question raises an entirely different question.

Mr. Kenneth Lindsay

As one of those who has put many individual cases, may I ask the right hon. Lady whether she realises that this has been going on now for over a year, and that this announcement today cannot possibly convince us that there will be any immediate speeding up? Therefore, will she reorganise her Department and see that sufficient administrative staff is there to deal with this, even in spite of the concession that has been made today?

Miss Wilkinson

To be quite honest, I am not making any concession. This matter has been continually under review by my Department. I do ask hon. Members to imagine the flood of applications that there has been, and the fact that every application has to be judged on its merits, and that so many of these forms have to be filled in and sent in. [Laughter.] I mean, the large number of forms involved by adding up all the individual applications together. But the point is, that though I have enormously increased the staff, it is still impossible to get as quick a passage of the applications as I should like to get, largely because of the circumstances I have outlined in the main answer.

Commander Noble

Could the right hon. Lady say what she would now assume to be the average delay?

Miss Wilkinson

It is extremely difficult to talk about averages, because in these matters one case may be held up for a long time owing to circumstances over which my Department has no control while another may go through very quickly. That is why it is so difficult.

Mr. Manningham-Buller

Is the right hon. Lady aware that even when her Department says a grant will be made, it means none the less a delay of several months before making payment?

Miss Wilkinson

The position is quite bad enough without exaggerations—

Mr. Manningham-Buller

There is no exaggeration there.

Miss Wilkinson

There are no delays of months. [HON. MEMBERS: "There are."] No, not if we are talking about the same thing. From the time when we get the certificate sent back by the college, the delay is sometimes, I regret to say, a matter of perhaps a week or a fortnight, sometimes more. The real delay may arise between the time of application and the time when the student gets into the college.

Mr. Stubbs

Is the right hon. Lady aware that a good number of these students have gone through their small savings and are now on the Assistance Board? Some of them date back as far as January, and if it is a case of shortage of staff, surely the Minister might borrow from some other Department so as to be able to get on with it and avoid these shocking delays?

Miss Wilkinson

I must ask hon. Members not to mix up different issues, and not to exaggerate. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] I am perfectly ready to admit that there is delay, but I have pointed out that the delay is only partially because of shortage of staff. In some cases it is the fault of the students themselves. If people will not apply in time, then of course these difficulties do occur. There really is no need for any student to go on public assistance, or anything like that, if he will write to us.

Mrs. Manning

The right hon. Lady has only dealt with the question of primary applications. Difficulty also arises in the recurrence of grants; why, when an application has been granted, have men and women to wait months, and perhaps have to borrow from heads of departments? Will she not have some simple arrangements made whereby perhaps the people who are in London at any rate could come to her Department to collect their grant?

Miss Wilkinson

I only wish I could, but in this matter the Department is not master in its own house. We have to have signed every term by each student a form stating that he is in attendance and a form of undertaking that he will repay if he does not complete attendance. That cannot be wiped out. [HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] Because it is laid upon us as a duty by the Public Accounts Committee, which is a Committee of this House. If hon. Members feel aggrieved about it, it is to the Public Accounts Committee that they must go, not to me.

Mr. Hynd

In view of the fact that my right hon. Friend's answer clearly shows the main cause of delay to be the waiting until the student actually begins to attend a course before payment is authorised, will she consider authorising payment the moment the grant has been sanctioned?

Miss Wilkinson

That would merely mean repeating everything I said in my original answer.

Mr. Lindsay

In view of the absolute need for removing this intolerable grievance, I beg to give notice that I will raise it as soon as possible on the Adjournment, so as to give further opportunity for debate.

14. Mr. Weitzman

asked the Minister of Education whether she is aware that there are a large number of ex-Service students at Aberystwyth who have been assessed for grants for maintenance and education under the Further Education Training Scheme, many of whom are married men with families and that great hardship is being caused to them by delay in the receipt of moneys due under this grant; and whether she will take steps to see that their grievance is remedied and that payment is put upon a prompt and proper basis.

Miss Wilkinson

Up to 6th December, of 120 students whose awards had been assessed, 105 had been paid and the remainder were in process of being paid. On the second part of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer which I have given to the hon. Member for Cardiff, Central (Mr. G. Thomas), and others.

Mr. Weitzman

The right hon. Lady has referred to a number who are not receiving payment. What about the hardship in regard to them?

Miss Wilkinson

This comes under the very long answer I have already given, and the subject will now come up on the Adjournment.

Mr. Piratin

Will the Minister define the meaning of the expression she used, "in the process of being paid," and state how many months it takes?

Miss Wilkinson

I must refer the hon. Member to the answer I have already given.

16. Mr. K. Lindsay

asked the Minister of Education whether she is aware that students having awards under the Further Education and Training Scheme, who are married, with children, are not permitted to receive family allowances in respect of their children; and what action she proposes to take.

Miss Wilkinson

Under the Further Education and Training Scheme, the normal allowance for a child is £40 per annum. Where an award holder has more than one child, he receives £40 per annum under the scheme for the first child, and £27 per annum for each of his other children up to four, in addition to £13 per annum for each of them under the Family Allowances Act.

Mr. Lindsay

I gather that the family allowance of £15 a year is deducted for a second child?

17. Mr. K. Lindsay

asked the Minister of Education whether she is aware that of 700 ex-Service students at the University of Leeds, only 200 have received instalments of grants under the Further Education and Training Scheme; and whether immediate aid can be given in view of their critical condition.

Miss Wilkinson

I cannot say whether the figure of 700 students who may become entitled to awards is correct, since my Department does not classify students by institutions, until they are told the amount of the award which they are to receive. Up to 6th December, the awards of 354 students had been assessed. Of these, 237 had been paid, and the remainder were in process of being paid. If other students at Leeds have applied for awards which have not yet been assessed, they will be paid in turn as rapidly as possible, having regard to the very large number of applications at various stages of consideration.

Mr. Lindsay

Is the right hon. Lady aware that I have received a telegram this morning, showing that 350 students have received payments, which means that 350, or half, are now going home on their Christmas vacations without payment?

Miss Wilkinson

I do not think it can be so. I should like to see the hon. Member, because his figures do not coincide with mine.

Mr. Chetwynd

Will the Minister bear in mind that students cannot give the best attention to their studies if they are continually financially embarrassed? Can she give an assurance that these students will receive their money for next term in plenty of time?

Miss Wilkinson

I can only say, as I have already said, that I am giving the closest personal attention to this matter, that I have increased the staff and reorganised the Department, but for the reasons I have already given, some delay in view of the present number of applications is inevitable.

Mr. Osborne

Is the right hon. Lady aware that those of us who were ex-Servicemen and received grants after the last war under a Tory Government experienced no delays?

26. Mr. Piratin

asked the Minister of Education how many ex-Service men and women have applied for further education under the Government's scheme: how many of these are receiving further education, giving separate figures for London; and how many have been refused, stating the main grounds for refusal.

Miss Wilkinson

Up to 6th December, 38,050 applications for awards under the Further Education and Training Scheme had reached my Department. Awards have been made to 22,037 applicants. Figures for the very numerous institutions of all types in London at which awards are held cannot be given separately without an undue expenditure of time and labour which would cause further delay. 5,000-odd applications have had to be refused for a variety of reasons, such as that the candidate could not be regarded as coming within the scope of the Scheme, or was unsuitable, for one reason or another, for an award from public funds.

Sir Ian Fraser

Will the right hon. Lady use her influence with the Government to see that civil servants are made to attend to this day-to-day administration, instead of being diverted for political purposes and objects?

28. Sir I. Fraser

asked the Minister of Education the procedure whereby ex-Service students obtain grants for a university education; how many students have obtained grants; and how long a time elapses between application, award and the first money payment.

Miss Wilkinson

Application is made in the first instance to the nearest appointments office of the Ministry of Labour from which, if the applicant is found to be prima facie eligible, it is sent to my Department for a decision. Up to 6th December, 22,037 awards had been made by my Department. It is not possible to give any general estimate of the time which elapses between the application, award and first money payment, since it depends on the circumstances of each case and, not least, on the promptitude with which the necessary certificates are received from the college.

Mr. Pickthorn

Can the Minister tell us how many applications are pending? I understand that 22,000 have already been settled.

Miss Wilkinson

If the hon. Gentleman will look at the long answer I gave to a series of Questions earlier, he will find in it all the figures for which he is now asking.

29. Mr. Weitzman

asked the Minister of Education what is the average length of time which now elapses between the acceptance of a candidate for training under the Teachers Emergency Training scheme and the actual provision of training for such candidate; and whether this average constitutes an improvement on the situation as it was six months ago.

Miss Wilkinson

Candidates from the Forces are now being admitted to colleges about a year after their Class A release date, a little less for men and a little more for women. Civilian candidates are being admitted after an interval varying from a little over a year for women to about 18 months for men from the date of their application. Though far more colleges are now open than six months ago, the waiting period is growing longer because of the very large number of candidates recently released from the Forces.

Mr. Weitzman

Is there likely to be any improvement in the near future?

Miss Wilkinson

Owing to the large number of releases from the Forces, there is bound to be a piling up during this period.