HC Deb 18 October 1945 vol 414 cc1466-8

Considered in Committee under Standing Order No. 69.

[Major Milner in the Chair.]

Motion made, and Question proposed,

That for the purposes of any Act of the present Session to authorise the provision of financial assistance to inshore fishermen and persons desiring to engage in the inshore fishing industry it is expedient to authorise—

  1. (1) the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of any sums required by the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries and the Secretary of State concerned with the fishing industry in Scotland for making loans and grants to such persons as aforesaid towards the acquisition, improvement or reconditioning of boats and equipment, subject to the following limitations, that is to say:—
    1. (a) that the amount of any grant so made in respect of the acquisition, improvement or reconditioning of any boat or equipment shall not exceed one-third of the price, or one-third of the cost of the improvement or reconditioning, as the case may be;
    2. (b) that the aggregate amount of the grants and loans so made shall not exceed five hundred thousand pounds and eight hundred thousand pounds respectively; and
    3. (c) that no grant or loan shall be so made after the expiration of a period not exceeding seven years beginning with the date of the passing of the said Act;
  2. (2) the payment into the Exchequer of any sums received by the said Minister and the Secretary of State by way of interest on or repayment of the principal of any such loans."—[Mr. Glenvil Hall.]—(King's Recommendation signified.)

9.12 p.m.

Mr. Boothby (Aberdeen and Kincardine, Eastern)

I do not want to delay the Committee for more than a few moments, but I would like to point out that we have not been given a great deal of information either by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries or by the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland as to precisely how these moneys are to be spent. I welcome the Bill in principle, but I think it is a little odd that we should have it put before us without some indication, for instance, of the rate of interest which will be charged—many hon. Members have asked that question but no answer has been given—or of the manner in which the question of need will be decided. We have not been given the slightest indication of the grounds on which that question will be decided or of the machinery to be used, or whether any means test is to be applied. We have only been told that a good and all-powerful Government will decide in the interests of the fishermen as a whole, and that we must leave it at that. I was a little astonished to hear the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries say that in cases where no grants are asked for loans would be granted up to some figure—I think he mentioned 54 or 55 per cent. He said it would be above that, but he could not tell how much in excess it would be. I want to suggest, if in cases where a grant is given additional loans can be made by the Government up to 90 per cent., that in cases where no grant is asked for loans should be made up to the same figure. I do not understand my right hon. Friend when he said he could not give any accurate information as to how much beyond the 50-odd per cent. the Government would go in cases where an outright grant was not asked for or conceded. I do not see why this Committee should agree to the money Resolution without a little more information on these questions. We have simply been told, "Here is a Bill to help inshore fishermen, and you can take it or leave it." Many questions have been asked and many of them have not been answered.

My final point is this. I believe that for the next two or three years, or perhaps a little less, the prices of boats and gear will be very much higher than they will be a little later on, and I am desperately afraid that a great many of these fishermen will receive loans against craft and gear on the basis of prices which may fall quite precipitously, perhaps in a few months, certainly within a year or two. What will their position be when those prices fall? No attempt has been made by the Government to answer that particular point. It is a really important point, and I do not see why we should not press for an answer. I know the Government are pressed for time; all of us are pressed for time, and will continue to be, but we must raise matters which affect our constituents. I like the principles of the Bill, but I am disappointed at the total lack of detailed information on how they are to be administered by the Government.

Mr. T. Williams

If I were to take the logic of the complaint of the hon. Member for East Aberdeen (Mr. Boothby), who feared that the value of the article in a year or two's time may so descend that the loan granted now may be actually in excess of the value of the vessel in a year or two's time—

It being a Quarter past Nine o'Clock, The Chairman left the Chair to make his report to the House.

Committee report Progress: to sit again To-morrow.