Domestic Supplies, London (Hansard, 30 January 1945)

Major Lloyd George
In view of the general interest of Question No. 76 to a large part of the population of London, Mr. Speaker, I thought I might, with your permission, read the answer to the House, although the hon. Member for East Fulham (Mr. Astor) was not in his place in time to ask the Question. The answer is as follows:
Yes, Sir. As a result of the measures which had already been taken, despite the severe weather, the tonnage of domestic coal, distributed in the week ended 20th January, 1945, was 12,000 tons greater than in the same week last year. Last week distribution was still further interfered with by ice-bound roads which greatly hampered the use of horse-drawn vehicles and slowed up motor transport. Consequently, the full benefit of the soldiers who had been put to work was not 1276 obtained. Even so, deliveries of coal in London were as high as in the same week of 1944. In these circumstances arrangements have been made for 125 Army vehicles, each provided with an Army driver and driver's mate, to begin work to-day, and a further 200 soldiers will be available to-morrow, making 850 in all.
I have prescribed that in London the maximum tonnage of coal which may be distributed, without licence, to any registered premises in the month of February shall not exceed 4 cwts. It is anticipated that this provision, together with the additional man-power and vehicles to which I have referred, will enable proper distribution to be restored. Cash-and-carry schemes have been instituted in 72 boroughs, at some 175 sites. These schemes, of course, should be regarded as temporary expedients to assist in meeting abnormal conditions aggravated by the prolonged severe weather. The real solution can only be to restore normal distribution to the consumers' premises as quickly as possible. I should like to pay a special tribute to the efforts of those engaged in the distribution of coal, whether regular workers or volunteers, who have been working hard in most trying conditions.

§ Mr. Manning
Could the Minister explain why his circulars of instruction with regard to the cash-and-carry scheme went to local authorities, whereas previous circulars have gone to the local fuel overseers? Has there been any great delay in the cash-and-carry scheme through this change of proceeding?

Major Lloyd George
No, Sir. Local authorities started a year or so ago, in some instances, to operate this scheme with our permission. I thought it would work very well as a whole at this time, and I am grateful to the local authorities for their co-operation.

§ Mr. Walter Edwards
With regard to the Minister's statement about an allowance of 4 cwt. of coal for the month of February, may I ask him whether he will be careful about statements of that description, which leave many people with the impression that they will get 1 cwt. per week, whereas in many cases, in spite of the allowance being 5 cwt. per month in the past, people have had no coal for five or six weeks? Further, is he aware that the reason why many people are not getting coal is maldistribution? Will he 1277 devise a policy to bring about a more co-ordinated system of distribution, so that people in all areas can receive a supply of coal?

Major Lloyd George
As the hon. Member is aware, there is a pooling in depots. The real trouble recently in London has been due to inability in many areas to put transport on the road at all—I have personally come across this myself. That has been a great difficulty, especially in the hillier parts of London. The purpose of making the allocation of 4 cwt. for February, in London—which is a lower allocation than in other parts of the country—is to ensure that more houses are visited than would be the case if a larger quantity were allocated. While it is true that there may be some houses which have not received their supply in the past, we hope that by reducing the allowance to 4 cwt. we shall be able to cover more houses, especially as in London there are 400,000 houses which have to get 1 cwt. each week.

Captain Duncan
Does the Minister's announcement mean that in large blocks of flats, particularly the higher flats, coal will be delivered to each flat, instead of in bulk on the ground floor?

Major Lloyd George
My hon. and gallant Friend will realise that one of the greatest difficulties we have had during the war—and one which was not absent in peace-time—has been to carry coal up five or six flights of stairs. That is the problem in London, but I am hoping, with the assistance of younger labour, to do something to remove it.

§ Mr. Evelyn Walkden
Does not the Minister think that the time is now opportune to tackle the question of the distribution of coal where four or five merchants deliver in the same street, where seven or eight men are, perhaps, engaged to deliver coal to 25 or 30 houses? Is this not the right time to tackle this very out-of-date system?

Major Lloyd George
I should hardly have thought that it was the right time to tackle it now, seeing what is happening to-day. But I appreciate what the hon. Member says. I do not suppose that this is a perfect system, any more than any other distribution system, but it certainly is not responsible for the difficulties in 1278 London at this moment. It is movement which has been so difficult. It is just as difficult to move coal, as the hon. Member will appreciate, as it is to move M.Ps., a difficulty which can be seen if one looks round the House at the moment.

§ Mr. Cluse
Is the Minister aware that in normal conditions, apart from the present bad weather, those who have had storage capacity have had coal, perhaps by luck, while others, without storage capacity, have been without it?

Major Lloyd George
That need not necessarily be at the expense of other people. Giving to people with storage capacity the right to store in the summer has taken them off the market in the winter. As I have already said, we have, in London, a tremendous problem of 400,000 small houses, and it is vital that the diminished labour and transport should be made available to cover as many houses as possible. Had it not been for the quite exceptional spell of bad weather we have had, we should not have these difficulties.

§ Dr. Edith Summerskill
Could the Minister tell us why this position has not been anticipated, why transport has not been pooled, and why he still allows five or six different merchants to deliver in one road? Why has he allowed this chaos to arise, whereas in other industries—the milk industry in particular—these difficulties have been anticipated, and transport has been pooled?

Major Lloyd George
The hon. Lady will appreciate that it is slightly easier to move a small bottle of milk than a ton of coal. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Yes, certainly. I am answering the question in my own way. I take no responsibility for the weather; I take responsibility for a good many other things, but I cannot take it for the weather. How we could have foreseen a spell of weather such as has hardly been known for 50 years, I do not know. If I were in a position to do that I would be a valuable person in many walks of life. We did make provision by predicting a much worse winter than those of the last two years, but when it has been physically impossible to move even engines along railway lines, or for horses to stand up, it is extremely difficult to say that all these conditions should have been 1279 foreseen. As regards pooling, under an ideal system it would be all right, but it would not have affected the position as it exists in London to-day.

§ Mr. E. J. Williams
Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman also look into the other regions, particularly South Wales, where by reason of the weather things are pretty grim?

Major Lloyd George
South Wales is in a peculiarly difficult position because transport has been at a standstill. With regard to the hon. Member's own constituency, I think there is some special case there because of the demand for coal as the result of the weather, but I have had no serious complaints as to the result of our action.

Mr. Astor
Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman consider having an immediate meeting with London Members this week in view of the very serious situation?

§ Mr. Keeling
Greater London.

Major Lloyd George
I am prepared at any time to meet those who represent an area where there are difficulties. All I am concerned with is that every assistance should be given. If the hon. Member thinks it will be of some assistance, I shall be happy to do so.