HC Deb 28 September 1944 vol 403 cc401-4
29. Mrs. Cazalet Keir

asked the Minister of Education what new information became available during the 12 days between the passing of the Education Bill into law on 3rd August and the issuing of a circular by his Ministry on 15th August postponing the raising of the school-leaving age.

Mr. Butler

If my hon. Friend will refer to Section 35 and Sub-section (3) of Section 108 of the Education Act, 1944, she will see that the effect of these sections read together is to require the Minister to raise the age at the earliest date from 1st April, 1945 and not later than 1st April, 1947, that is compatible with a sufficient supply of teachers and school accommodation to meet the needs of children between 14 and 15. I indicated to the House as early as 19th January last that it might be necessary to have recourse to the powers conferred on the Minister by Section 108. The need for reaching an early decision on the matter and for communicating it to local education authorities was accentuated by the disturbances to which we have been subjected this summer and the consequent increased burden on authorities in evacuation and reception areas. I should like to take this opportunity of stating that it is the Government's intention to see that the age is raised to 15 at the earliest moment that circumstances permit. Meanwhile, all the necessary steps are being taken to bring Parts II and IV of the Act into operation on 1st April next, and to remedy deficiencies in teaching power and school accommodation as far as war conditions allow.

Mrs. Cazalet Keir

Whilst fully appreciating the reasons for postponing the date of the school-leaving age, why did not my right hon. Friend inform the House of Commons or move an Amendment before allowing the Bill to become law?

Mr. Butler

The answer to that is that there was no need to move an Amendment. I have referred to a Section of the Act which was considered by Parliament and I informed the House as early as 19th January last that the use of this might be necessary.

Mr. Greenwood

Does the right hon. Gentleman remember that during the discussions on the Bill, although he gave an indication of the difficulties with which he might be faced, continual pressure was brought to bear upon him at all stages; and in the last speech I made on the Third Reading, I referred to this question—[Horn. MEMBERS: "Speech."]—I am asking my right hon. Friend whether he really does appreciate how deeply the local authorities and organisations interested in education feel about this; and in view—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."]—I am asking a question. I am asking my right hon. Friend whether, in view of the impairment and interruption of education of millions of children, intensified during this present period, it will not be possible for the Government to give urgent consideration to the question of the school; leaving age?

Mr. Butler

I am aware of the disappointment caused, which I share myself, and it is my desire and the desire of the Government to see the Act implemented as quickly as possible. In answer to the right hon. Gentleman's request, 1 can say that the Government intend to do their utmost to meet the deficiencies of teaching staff and accommodation at the earliest possible moment.

Mr. Shinwell

Is it not true that the right hon. Gentleman gave the general impression, in this House and in the country, when he was putting the Bill through, that it was intended to proceed next year with the raising of the school-leaving age? Is it not now the case that the Government are not in a position to make a firm and emphatic declaration, that they do not know when the age will be raised?

Mr. Butler

The difficulties were referred to in the Section of the Act which was passed by this House dealing with accommodation and the provision of teachers. Those are circumstances governed by war conditions.

Mr. Shinwell

The right hon. Gentleman ought to have said so then.

Mr. Butler

I said so in the House on several occasions. I have no desire to deceive the House in any way. We have had Debates on this subject and the matter has been put from both sides of the House. One thing which I cannot control are the conditions to which I have referred. As I have said, it is my intention and the intention of the Government to carry out this partcular part of the reforms as soon as we possibly can.