42. Mr. Creech Jonesasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether His Majesty's Government can make any statement as to the future relations between Southern Rhodesia and Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland.
§ 43. Captain P. Macdonaldasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is in a position to make a statement with regard to constitutional development in Northern Rhodesia.
§ Colonel StanleyAs the answers to these Questions raise matters of importance and are necessarily of some length, I will, with the permission of Mr. Speaker and that of the House and of the hon. Members concerned, reply to them at the end of Question time.
§ Later—
§ Colonel StanleyHis Majesty's Government have recently had under further consideration the question of the relations between Southern Rhodesia, Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland. In considering this question, they have fully taken into account the recommendations of the Royal Commission of 1938–39, and they 2365 have also taken the opportunity to discuss the present situation in the three Territories with the Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia and the Governors of Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland during their recent visits to this country. It is recognised that there should be the closest possible co-ordination of the policy and action of the Governments of the three Territories in all matters of common interest and it has been agreed with them that concrete and positive steps should be taken to ensure that this co-ordination is effective and comprehensive. With this end in view, it is proposed that a Standing Central African Council covering the three Territories should be established on a permanent basis and that a permanent Inter-Territorial Secretariat should be set up. The Council will be consultative in character and its general function will be to promote the closest contact and cooperation between the three Governments and their administrative and technical services. Its precise functions and constitution will be matters for consultation between the three Governments, but it is contemplated that it should deal with communications, economic relations, industrial development; research, labour, education, agricultural, veterinary and medical matters, currency and such other matters as may be agreed between the three Governments. It is contemplated also that permanent standing committees of the Council should be set up to deal with communications, industrial development, research and such other matters as may be agreed upon and that, in addition, ad hoc conferences should be held under the ægis of the Council to deal with technical and special subjects. It is intended that the leading unofficials in Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland should be closely associated with the work of the Council and its committees.
His Majesty's Government realise that the Southern Rhodesia Government still adhere to their view that the three Territories should be amalgamated. While, however, His Majesty's Government have, after careful consideration, come to the conclusion that the amalgamation of the Territories under existing circumstances cannot be regarded as practicable, they are confident that the present scheme will, by ensuring a closer contact and co-operation, make an important contribution to the future pros- 2366 perity of the two Rhodesias and Nyasaland.
I am also glad to have this opportunity of making a statement on constitutional development in Northern Rhodesia. I discussed the reform of the Northern Rhodesia constitution with the Governor during his recent visit to this country and as a result it has now been decided by His Majesty's Government that the time has come to increase the unofficial membership of the Legislative Council. The number of nominated unofficial members will accordingly be increased from one to five, three of whom will represent the interests of the African community. The Council will then consist in addition to the Governor as President, of nine official members, eight elected unofficial members and five nominated unofficial members. The Governor will be provided under the constitution with the necessary reserve powers. It is intended that African interests in the Legislative Council should he represented by Africans as soon as a suitable basis of representation can be built up. Provincial African Councils have recently been established in the Territory, and, when these have had sufficient experience, an African Central Council will be set up consisting of delegates from the Provincial Councils. It is the intention that in due course African members from this Central Council should sit on the Legislative Council to represent African interests. In the meantime African interests will be represented by members directly nominated by the Governor. For the present these members will be Europeans; but, on the occurrence of a vacancy or vacancies at any time during the interim period before the representatives of African interests can be appointed from the African Central Council, it will be open to the Governor to select for nomination one or more Africans, if he considers that African interests would benefit from such a course.
Mr. Creech JonesIn thanking my right hon. and gallant Friend for that very valuable statement, may I ask him whether, with regard to the first part of the answer to Question 42, we are to assume that the independence and integrity of the three separate territories will remain; and further, whether the Government's position in regard to amalgamation remains unchanged, and that consideration of the problem is postponed 2367 until there are further changes in native policy in the respective territories?
§ Colonel StanleyYes, Sir, that is so.
§ Captain P. MacdonaldThese constitutional changes that have been announced to-day and which have been recently announced, are of great importance, and in view of the fact this House is responsible for the administration of these Colonies, shall we have an opportunity of discussing these matters before final ratification takes place? It is important that the House should know to what they are committed before the final settlement is made.
§ Colonel StanleyThe change in the constitution in Rhodesia, as in the Gold Coast, has to be effected by means of an Order in Council. These Orders in Council are laid before both Houses in the normal course, and the usual means can be found to discuss them.
§ Earl WintertonIn view of the great importance of this matter to the inhabitants of Northern Rhodesia, can my right hon. and gallant Friend make it clear—I think it was clear from the reply he gave to the hon. Member for Shipley (Mr. Creech Jones)—that this in no way prejudices the eventual possible amalgamation of Northern and Southern Rhodesia after the war, in view of public opinion on the subject in Northern Rhodesia? Does it leave the position unchanged?
§ Colonel StanleyThat is the case. We have decided that, under existing conditions, amalgamation is not practicable; but I would not like it to be thought that existing conditions merely meant the continuance of the war.
§ Earl WintertonWill my right hon. and gallant Friend make it quite clear that this does not mean that His Majesty's Government exclude for all time the idea of amalgamation of the African territories?
§ Colonel StanleyCertainly. I have said that it is not considered practicable under existing circumstances, and I have given the House some idea of what those circumstances are.
§ Mr. John DugdaleWith reference to the proposed Central Council, the right hon. and gallant Gentleman used the phrase that "unofficial help will be 2368 sought." Will this unofficial help be African help?
§ Colonel StanleyWhat I meant was that unofficial members of the Legislature will be associated. Africans will not be associated at the moment, and the Governor will have to represent their interests. No doubt, as soon as Africans emerge who are capable of really contributing to discussions of this kind, they will be associated.
§ Sir Edward GriggWill the Orders in Council, to which my right hon. and gallant Friend referred, be made in the course of the present Session?
§ Colonel StanleyI could not answer off-hand, but I should be doubtful if that would be so.
§ Mr. Ivor ThomasHave the Government of the Union of South Africa been kept informed of these proposals, and have they expressed approval?
§ Colonel StanleyThis is the responsibility of His Majesty's Government.
§ Colonel StanleyIt will have a permanent secretariat, and it will have a permanent chairman, but not a full-time one. Probably he will be the Governor of Southern Rhodesia.