HC Deb 01 March 1944 vol 397 cc1411-4
28. Captain Strickland

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport whether he has now considered the detailed statement of the hire and operational costs involved in the case of road vehicle 5S10/50, hired by his Department for the week ended 11th February last; and if he has any further statement to make on the total load carried during that week and the costs involved.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Yes, Sir, I have examined the record of this lorry for the week ended 11th February, as it was submitted by the operator himself. This record confirms my statement that the loads carried amounted in all, not to 16£ tons, as my hon. and gallant Friend alleged in his previous Question, but to 35£ tons. Allowing for all overheads, and for demurrage for one and a half days' delay in unloading, for which the Road Haulage Organisation was not to blame, the cost per ton was not £3, as alleged by my hon. and gallant Friend in his Question. On the basis of the figures with which he has been good enough to supply me himself, the average cost per ton would be 17s. 3d. I would, however, remind my hon. and gallant Friend that the Organisation is not primarily designed to make a profit by competing with other forms of transport, but to make the best use of transport as a whole.

Captain Strickland

Will my hon. Friend indicate the particular detail in the very closely-examined statement that I secured for his use, on which he bases his own statement that the charges work out at 17s. 5d.? Which of the details is incorrect?

Mr. Noel-Baker

There were 35½ tons carried, and not 16½ two loads of paper and cement. I have the journey sheet here, and I will gladly show it to my hon. and gallant Friend.

Captain Strickland

Half of £3 per ton would still work out at 30s. per ton, if you doubled the amount carried.

Mr. Gallacher

Is it not the case that prior to the war these private companies were robbing and looting this country, and that they want to get back to that sort of thing?

29. Captain Strickland

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport how many road vehicles were sent by his Department on Friday, 18th February, empty from London, 173 miles to Northwich, Cheshire; what total unloaded ton-mileage was involved; and whether the carriage of household salt, involving neither port clearance nor emergency need, is regarded as sufficiently urgent traffic to warrant the waste of fuel on the unloaded journey outwards.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Twenty-five vehicles were sent from London to Northwich on 28th February to carry salt. The average capacity of the vehicles was between seven and eight tons. The vehicles were needed at Northwich, because the railways had been unable to handle the traffic which was offered to them, and in consequence the supplies of salt had fallen dangerously low in certain areas. The Ministry of Food assured my officers that the salt was urgently required in these areas, not only for household use, but for the production of essential foodstuffs, including the baking of bread. No outward loads were available.

Captain Strickland

Does my hon. Friend realise that this amounts to between 2,000 and 3,000 unloaded ton-miles, in which tyres and fuel were being wasted? Were there no vehicles nearer the spot which could have handled this traffic. Did he take the precaution to make inquiries of the clearing houses, to see whether they could suppy loads?

Mr. Noel-Baker

My hon. and gallant Friend's next question deals with clearing houses. I do not admit that empty running on a return journey, or on an outward journey, is wasted if the load to be carried is essential and urgent. The Ministry of Food assured us that in this case that was so.

Captain Strickland

Will my hon. Friend accept my assurance that, in at least one case, the recipient of the salt assured us that he had supplies in hand and needed no more at that time?

Mr. Gallacher

There are no scruples about these people.

30. Captain Strickland

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport, what instructions he is issuing to regional and district transport officers to prevent, as far as possible, the wastage of fuel and rubber occasioned by empty running of road vehicles under Government control; and whether, should they be unable to provide loads, he will instruct them to consult clearing houses.

Mr. Noel-Baker

The detailed instructions given to the Officers of the Road Haulage Organisation vary from time to time according to the general transport situation. They have, however, always been designed to ensure that traffic which should be moved by road is so moved with the minimum use of fuel and rubber. I am glad to assure my hon. and gallant Friend that, in that purpose, the Organisation has achieved a high measure of success. I must remind him, however, that any attempt to load vehicles with traffic of some sort in all circumstances, because they are proceeding on a journey before or after dealing with essential traffic, would inevitably lead to additional unnecessary, and therefore, wasteful use of fuel and rubber. It would, in addition, tend to disorganise a systematic use of transport as a whole, and impair the flexibility which makes road transport an invaluable reserve for dealing with emergencies.

Clearing Houses are the agents of consignors, and are well aware where and how they can place traffic with the Road Haulage Organisation.

Captain Strickland

Would my hon. Friend agree that he has issued instructions to Regional and District Transport Officers that they shall try to fill up these vehicles on return journeys, whereas the majority of the Questions I have put to him have been with regard to sending empty vehicles on outward journeys? Will he amend these instructions to deal with outward journeys, where they run empty, as well as return journeys?

Mr. Noel-Baker

They always fill up on return journeys, if loads are available, and I can give the hon. and gallant Gentleman many thousands of cases where that has been done.