HC Deb 13 June 1944 vol 400 cc1940-2
Mr. Hutchinson

I beg to move, in page 5 line 42, to leave out from "products" to the end of the Sub-section.

The Amendment provides that if any question arises as to the milk produced on the farm, the question shall be determined by the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries. This Sub-section raises again a question on which the Committee has previously expressed a strong opinion. Where a question arises between a Minister and persons who are concerned in his administration, it is not a desirable thing that the determination of that question be left solely to the Minister. This is a matter which will be affected by the concession which the Minister made earlier to-day, that questions arising between him and applicants for registration should be considered by a tribunal set up under the Regulations, I suppose. The effect would be to exclude from the considerations of that tribunal the question of milk produced on a farm which forms an essential part of a product or compound. These questions ought not to be left solely to the Minister. It makes him judge as well as prosecutor in his own case.

Mr. Hudson

The Amendment, as I have it, is to leave out from "products" to the end of the Sub-section. The Amendment, as originally drafted, would have abolished the definition of "dairy farmer," "principal Act," "raw milk" and "War Service," and was, therefore, clearly wrong. The inclusion of the words in the definition of "dairy farm" is intended to cover cases in which butter and cheese are made on the farm from milk produced wholly or mainly on the farm. Clearly someone has to define a borderline case when it arises, and it is most proper that the Minister should do so.

Amendment negatived.

Mr. Petherick

I beg to move, in page 6, line 2, to leave out "produces," and to insert "obtains."

Mr. Turton

I rise on a very short point. The question is whether the dairyman educes this milk or whether he produces it or obtains it. I think this word "produces" is wrong.

Mr. Petherick

I should have thought that the appropriate word was "obtains" and not "produces."

Mr. Hudson

This is a drafting Amendment but it is thoroughly wrong. The expression "producer of milk" is accepted, and I think ought to be re- tained, and the principal Act refers to producers of milk. If the word "obtains" is inserted, it brings retailers within the definition of a dairy farmer because a retailer can be said to obtain milk from cows, although he does not actualy produce it from cows.

Mr. Petherick

Actually, neither does the dairy farmer; it is only the cows that produce milk. Although it has been accepted, I do not think it is necessarily a good term. Perhaps the Minister of Agriculture should think again and give us a better and more correct term.

Mr. Hudson

It is a better term than "obtains."

Amendment negatived.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 9 ordered to stand part of the Bill.