HC Deb 06 June 1944 vol 400 cc1319-23

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."— [Captain McEwen.]

Mr. Mander (Wolverhampton, East)

I make no apology for raising on the Adjournment a matter of which I gave notice about six weeks ago, in which the hon. Member for Bridgwater (Mr. Vernon Bartlett) and myself are interested. It seems to me to be quite appropriate to this occasion, when the United Nations are going forward to one of the greatest events in their history, or in all history., is the question, which may seem a small one but has its important side, of a United Nations flag or emblem. It is generally agreed that, after the war, a new world organisation is to be set up and, if it is to succeed, it is important that there should be associated with it something in the nature of colour and ceremonial, so that its prestige may be built up in a better manner than in the case of the League of Nations. I should like to see it have some emblem or flag, or I hope it will have a song. If one were looking for a suitable battle song one would not have to look much further than the sort of thing so well shown in the well-known lines of the American "Battle Hymn of the Republic: Mine eyes have seen the glory of the corning of the Lord. or I have seen Him in the watchfires of a hundred, circling camps. or He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat. I understand that for historical reasons the hymn would not be-Appropriate: but it expresses the kind of feeling required.

Mr. Kirkwood (Dumbarton Burghs)

What about "Scots Wha Hae"?

Mr. Mander

We all know the deep feelings of pride and emotion which any national flag calls forth. It is not suggested that our 'own national flag or that of any other country should be suppressed or got rid of. I mention that because in an interesting Brains Trust broadcast recently when this question was raised the extremely clever people who answer these questions answered it on the basis that all national flags were to be abolished. Nothing could be more absolutely preposterous, as I should have thought would be obvious even to the Brains Trust. We all know the feelings that are evoked, and always will be, by the Union Jack, the Stars and Stripes—Old Glory—and the Red Flag, although we remember that the Union Jack is composed of the national flags of three different races.

May I briefly run through the history of this kind of thing? I suppose that the earliest international flag of any kind would be at the time of the Crusades, when the Cross was used as an emblem. After the last war, I understand that the Inter-Allied Shipping Commission made use of an Inter-Allied flag which was flown on all their ships in every port to which they went, and it answered satisfactorily. If I may be permitted in the presence of some hon. Members to refer to the late, and by me, at any rate, lamented League of Nations, there was one occasion on which a flag was flown. The League lacked certain things—force and colour—and these are the things we all want to see in any international organisation of the future. In 1933 in the dispute between Colombia and Peru concerning the territory of Leticia, a flag was flown consisting of a white rectangle with an inscription in dark blue. In 1930 there was an international competition for a flag of this kind. There were 1,640 entries, hut they were a little disappointing and no first prize was given. There were two second prizes. One was given for a design of a five-pointed star inside a circle, representing the five Continents inside the world. The other design was five linked circles inside a circle representing the same idea. The colours were white or silver for peace, blue for truth and yellow or gold for good luck.

There was an instance during the present war when a United Nations flag was flown in Washington for a brief period. It represented four red lines on a white background, and these were supposed to be the four freedoms. A question was put to the Foreign Secretary about a year ago on the subject. The right hon. Gentleman expressed his interest and sympathy and said that if anything of the kind were adopted the Government would give it their blessing. The point has been made that it would be extremely difficult to get all the United Nations to agree in a matter of this kind, but that does not seem to me necessary. We could start with the three great Powers who have their masses of men in the Services. At the present moment British and American nationals acting in concert have some emblem, which shows that it is not altogether out of the picture even now. If the three great Powers were able to agree, in due course the others would probably fall into line. I agree that we cannot negotiate with the whole of them at the present time.

I should like to see a flash on the uniform of every serving man in the United Nations. I am going to makes, suggestion of what it might be. We should find something based on tradition and history, and I do not think we can do better than to look back to ancient Greece, which means so much today and has meant so much in the history of culture and philosophy. Above all, let us look to Athens, where democracy first showed itself on the earth's surface. When the Athenians went into battle they made use of two symbols, the olive for peace, and the owl for wisdom. I suggest we could do much worse than follow their example. An alternative might be found on some of the interesting banners on the Bayeux tapestries of the Norman Conquest, for instance, at the Battle of Hastings. I have been looking at them recently, and I, think there are certainly opportunities here.

All I ask the Government to do is to treat this matter seriously. It may be said that it is only a matter of sentiment and emotion, but let us remember what an enormous part in the world of human beings sentiment and emotion play, and let us make the most of the feelings which are evoked by great symbols. I would end with a verse of poetry which I think well repays recall, as it so aptly expresses these suggestions.

Mr. Leslie Boyce (Gloucester)

Will the hon. Gentleman be prepared to sing it?

Mt. Mander

The lines are: Off with your hat as the flag goes by, And let the heart have its say. You are man enough for a tear in your eye, Which you will not wipe away.

The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. George Hall)

No one denies the interest which my hon. Friend has taken in the matter about which he has just addressed the House. I must point out however that when the Question was first raised it concerned a United Nations flag, whereas he commenced his speech to-day by wanting an emblem and a song. I trust that it will not be thought that His Majesty's Government are not alive to the psychological and practical considerations which he has placed before us, but I would mention Some of the reasons which have so far led them to doubt the appropriateness of taking the initiative in this matter with the other United Nations.

In the first place, both the moment at which any United Nations flag should be instituted and the manner of its use and indeed its design are questions which demand some consideration. What would be the most suitable time, from the political and psychological point of view for its introduction, assuming that such a flag was desirable? It is suggested that the most suitable time from the political and psychological point of view would be when some permanent political organisation of the United Nations is instituted. Until such a time it would be necessary, in order to avoid the drawing of premature political conclusions, to make clear that the adoption of a United Nations flag did not imply the existence of some kind of international authority transcending national sovereignty.

While this difficulty could, no doubt, be overcome by framing an agreement in suitable terms with the other nations there would still be the difficulty of defining the occasions on which such a flag could be properly used. Without such a definition it would always be possible for any one, or any group of the United Nations acting unilaterally, to implicate other nations in matters with which they were not concerned or had not given their consent. Preliminary ex- amination of this matter suggests it would not be easy to frame such a definition. Indeed it might be necessary to draw it so narrowly that the occasions on which the flag could be used would be too limited to make it worth having one. It is also anticipated that some difficulty would be encountered in finding a design for such a flag which would be acceptable to all the United Nations. It is true, as my hon. Friend suggested, that a flag of this kind has been tried out but I think the general consensus of opinion not only in this House and in this country butt in other countries as well is that it is very much more effective to have the flags of the United Nations flying side by side than a flag common to all.