HC Deb 27 January 1944 vol 396 cc903-6
Mr. Messer

I beg to move, in page 4, line 38, to leave out from "until" to the end of line 41, and to insert "deleted by the Minister."

The object of the Amendment is to obtain an explanation of why the registration is to be provisional. As I understand it, by some means, after an application the case will be considered. It will be decided that the disablement will continue for six months or more, and then there will be a period of registration. I do not quite understand why the registration cannot be permanent. In most legislation it is permanent, but where conditions justify it there is a variation. For instance, under the Blind Persons Act a blind person is registered as such. There is no question of whether in the event of there being any possibility of improvement or even recovery of the sight the person should continue to be registered as a blind person: he will be crossed off the register if that happens. The Bill provides that once a person is registered as disabled and placed in work during the period of his employment, he will be assumed to be disabled, even though in fact he may have recovered from that disablement.

I can conceive the possibility of a number of registered disabled people in that category who have improved their condition, and who in fact are no longer un-economic to the employer, yet the employer can continue to regard them as being disabled people. In other words, the employer will have a quota of registered disabled people who are not actually disabled. A discriminating employer who sought that type of person would be placed in a position of advantage over others. I would suggest that the process might be reversed, and the registration made permanent but the name of a person should be deleted if his condition made him no longer suitable for the register, the Ministry deciding on the manner of that deletion. There is a possibility of a registered disabled person who has been working at some other job applying for registration as a disabled person in order to retain his job, because while unregistered he cannot retain his job, but on being registered he can. It appears to me, therefore, that the question of provisional registration is one which might be further clarified.

Mr. Tomlinson

The purpose of fixing at the time of registration the period for which the registration shall stand is to get a periodic review. It is true, as the hon. Member has said, that if an individual who is on the register and employed as part of a quota makes sufficient progress in his rehabilitation and his work, and overcomes his disability to such an extent that he would no longer qualify to come on the register, he is still counted as a disabled person while he retains his post, even though his registration has been looked at during the period. Not until he leaves that job and goes to another will the question of his being on the quota arise. The reason is that if he qualifies for the quota in the first instance, the employer is surely entitled to some credit for the fact that he took the man in when he was not able-bodied, and at the same time this will give continuity of employment. Also, the best employers, who go out of their way to provide machinery to enable employees to overcome their disabilities quickly should not be penalised—if it can be called penalised—under the Bill because those employees would no longer be qualified for the register. The period for which the registration is fixed, in the light of a man's incapacity, provides an opportunity of reviewing the matter, and we think that that is the best way to deal with it. The series of Amendments in the name of my hon. Friend are, I think, all intended to bring out this point. If carried, they would bring everybody under Clause 1 of the Bill, as a register would not be necessary. I think my hon. Friend will see that the method proposed would give us the results which he, too, has in mind although I must admit that, as he argued the case, he made some points for the reverse working of the machine.

Mr. Messer

Does my hon. Friend see this point? It is possible to have this provisional registration, the man will go beyond that period in his employment, and then, before he can get employment again as a registered person, he has to make fresh application. That has to be repeated.

Mr. Tomlinson

If a man recovers from his disability to such an extent that it can no longer be looked upon as a handicap, he is at liberty at any time to challenge the decision to have his name removed from the register if the circumstances warrant it. One can conceive a man being in a job and not being disabled for that job, and consequently losing his registration because he has re-qualified for employment as a normal person, yet if he lost that job he would need to come on the register again, in order to obtain the particular type of work which he sought.

Mr. Messer

That is not my point. Perhaps I put the illustration badly. A man is registered, we will assume, for nine months. It is assumed that he will have recovered at the end of nine months, so that he can leave that job and go as an ordinary worker. In point of fact, on the expiration of nine months he has not lost his disablement. Then he loses his job, because the quota goes down or for some other reason. When he applies for some other job, he has to apply again to go on the quota. That may happen several times.

Mr. Tomlinson

No, if he has not lost his registration at the time he loses his job, he can go back to the register, and go on another quota.

Mr. Messer

The registration is for nine months. He keeps the job for 12 months and then goes on another job. The registration has expired, and he has to apply again.

Mr. Tomlinson

There is no intention of fixing a date for registration: the date is for examination. But I will look into the point.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. Tomlinson

I beg to move, in page 4, line 49, to leave out "and," and to insert: The provisions of Sub-section (1) of the last preceding Section as to the matters which may be prescribed thereunder shall have effect as respects the matters which may be prescribed under this Sub-section. This Amendment is intended to meet a point which was raised on Clause 7. Now that we have met the requirements of the Committee by restricting the Minister's powers to prescribe, the same point arises here. The Amendment sounds legal, but what it means, in effect, is that the same principle shall apply to Clause 8, with regard to the retention of names on the register, as applies with regard to disqualification which shall take place under Clause 7.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.