HC Deb 27 January 1944 vol 396 cc969-71
Mr. Tomlinson

I beg to move, in page 12, line 27, after "account," to insert: (whether because employment or such work would not be available to them or because they would be unlikely to be able to compete therein on terms comparable as respects earnings and security with those enjoyed by persons engaged therein who are not subject to disablement.) The object of this Amendment is to make clear the classes of person entitled to the benefit of the facilities provided by the Clause. The Clause refers to persons registered as handicapped by disablement who, by reason of the nature or severity of their disablement, are unlikely, either at any time or until after the lapse of a prolonged period, to be able "otherwise" to obtain employment or to undertake work on their own account. The word "otherwise" means "except with the aid of the special facilities provided for by the Clause," and the Amendment is designed to make it clear that a disabled person will be held to be eligible for these special facilities in two kinds of circumstances—where no employment or work is likely to be available to him at all, or, where work is available, if owing to the nature or severity of his disablement he would be unable or unlikely to be able to compete on terms comparable as respects earnings and security with those enjoyed by non-disabled persons engaged in that employment or work. Simply stated, it means that because of the extreme nature of his disability he shall be allowed to come in and partake of the benefits provided in this Clause.

Mr. Rhys Davies

I think it would be taken for granted on the experience of the last war that a considerable number of these poor people will enter the distributive trades and open little shops on their own account. At the moment, so far as we can foresee, nobody will be allowed to open a shop at the end of this war without the consent of the Board of Trade. Will the Ministry of Labour have a liaison with the Board of Trade so that when one of these poor fellows has been rehabilitated then the Board of Trade will not turn round and say "You cannot open a shop at all"?

Mr. Tomlinson

It will be absolutely necessary that there shall be liaison with all those Departments which have restrictive regulations in operation at the present time. The point my hon. Friend has put will be kept in mind.

Mr. Davies

Do we understand that when the Ministry of Labour has done all this excellent work and all other conditions have been satisfied, it will not be possible for the Board of Trade to say that this man shall not enter an occupation of that kind?

Mr. Tomlinson

I think the hon. Member can leave it to the Ministry to see that we will not go to all the trouble of rehabilitating, resettling, and making grants to settle before it is discovered that it is impossible to set a man up in that particular business.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Tomlinson

I beg to move, in page 13, line 14, to leave out "and."

This Amendment has been put down in order to make it clear that the facilities available in other directions shall be available to local authorities for recovering expenditure and for making expenditure under this Clause. If I may give an illustration, under the Workshops for the Blind Act, practically all the administration is done by the local authorities, and if, under this Bill, the local authorities were called upon, as they are expected to be, to develop that undertaking, then they have the authority to spend the money, just as other undertakings have who receive that authority from the Ministry.

Sir D. Thomson

On a point of Order. Is the hon. Gentleman replying to the wrong Amendment?

Mr. Tomlinson

No, as a matter of fact the hon. Gentleman is moving the Amendment which is necessary to cover the position of the local authorities.

Sir D. Thomson

But we are dealing with Clause 15, page 13, line 14, to leave out "and", are we not?

Mr. Tomlinson

Yes, but there is no point in leaving it out unless you are going to put something in. I am taking it for granted that the two Amendments which run together are being considered together. If it is suggested that the first Amendment should be treated separately then the reason for leaving out the word "and is that we want to insert something else, of which I have spoken.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendment made: In page 13, line 17, after "Sub-section," insert: and to any local authority in respect of expenses incurred by them under any enactment conferring powers on them in that behalf in providing under arrangements made between the Minister and the authority facilities approved by him for any of the purposes mentioned in Sub-section (1) of this Section, in defraying or contributing towards expenses incurred by persons for whom such facilities are so provided in travelling as mentioned in the last preceding Sub-section, or in making payments to or in respect of such persons.—[Mr. Tomlinson.]

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.