SUPPLEMENTARY PENSIONS (Hansard, 11 February 1944)

§ Mr. Tinker (Leigh)
I want to raise a question on this Vote. I have had a letter from the secretary of the Old Age Pensioners' Association, which says: Several cases have arisen in which a disability pension has been granted and divided between a man and his wife, and in assessing the supplementary pensions, only that portion granted to the man is being disregarded by the Assistance Board, the amount granted to the wife being treated as resources. This, therefore, appears to contravene the Act.… I have looked at the Act and I am not quite clear what has happened. Therefore, I gave notice to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health that I would raise this point so that she could make the position clear to the old age pensioners and to the Assistance Board. On Wednesday we had a Debate on supplementary pensions and a promise from the Minister of Health that, in certain cases, where there was hardship, where arrears had not been paid, they could be taken into account by the Assistance Board.

§ Mr. Mathers (Linlithgow)
When the Debate, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Mr. Tinker) has referred, was proceeding, the question of accelerating the determination of the 2043 supplementary pensions was raised. The Minister did not appear to be able to say that this work of acceleration would be carried out quickly and claimed that that did not come within his province, as it was a matter for the Assistance Board. Arising out of the strong opinions that were expressed, I thought that the right hon. and learned Gentleman might, unofficially, make some representations to the Board along that line. Can the hon. Lady say anything about that to-day?

§ Mr. Evelyn Walkden (Doncaster)
There is another aspect of this question. I wonder whether the hon. Lady has been informed of the difficulties in mining areas where old age pensioners, receiving supplementary allowances, may express a willingness to billet lads who are being directed into the pits, but fear that if they provide them with accommodation their pensions will be adjusted accordingly? These old people may receive a shilling or two benefit from having a lad billeted with them and the Determination of Needs Acts says that all income must be taken into account. In canvassing one big mining area recently two women called on many people during the day but found only three who would accept billetees. These officials said that, if they could have assured the old age pensioners that their pensions or supplementary allowances would not be interfered with they would have been able to find 30 homes for billetees. This matter concerns the hon. Lady's Department, the Ministry of Labour and the Ministry of Fuel and Power and is causing anxiety to the old people. This Vote covers the issue I am raising and perhaps the hon. Lady can say something which will help to solve the problem and so find additional billets for these trainees.

§ The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health (Miss Horsbrugh)
In reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Mr. Tinker), it is quite clear that the disregard is limited to £1 for a disability pension. The hon. Gentleman has already put to me a case of a husband and wife living together in which there has been an allowance to the wife in addition to the disability pension. He asked whether that could be taken into account. The legal position is quite clear. The £1 disability is disregarded but nothing else. Therefore, any extra allowance given to 2044 the wife, as the Act stands at present, could not be taken in account in connection with what we call the statutory disregard.
As regards the point about acceleration I think my right hon. and learned Friend made it clear in the Adjournment Debate on Wednesday that the responsibility did lie with the Assistance Board. I know they are doing tremendous work. The hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Mathers) asked me if, without official responsibility, my right hon. and learned Friend could, in pleasant conversation, say to the Assistance Board how much we would appreciate acceleration. Well, I think the hon. Member will realise that what has been said in Debate will reach the ears of the Board. They are very anxious to accelerate these inquiries as much as possible, so that people can get the extra amount. Hon. Members who perhaps do not know all the details, perhaps do not always appreciate the work which has been done and the rate at which it is being carried out.
On the subject of billeting, Questions have been answered in this House on several occasions. As the law stands all income is taken into account. During the 4½ years in which all sorts of evacuees, children and adults, have been billeted up and down the country we have been able to overcome most of the difficulties as to what is exactly income and what is not. I think we can leave it to the discretion of those who are assessing to see if there is any sum that would be considered as actual profit. As I have said, all income must be taken into account although I realise the point is that if a sum is being paid for billeting there is the question of how much is paid for food and the cost of keeping the individual and of how much might be put down as extra.

§ Mr. E. Walkden
Will the hon. Lady, through her officers, convey to the old folks the kind of assurance which she has given me to-day? I think billets will be made available if these old people can feel the assurance that I feel after hearing her explanation.

§ Miss Horsbrugh
If the hon. Member can bring to me any cases where people have had persons billeted on them and have suffered in this way, I will look into them.

§ Mr. Walkden
That is very fair.