§ 8. Major-General Sir Alfred Knoxasked the Secretary of State for War if he will now make a general statement regarding conditions in Japanese camps; the delivery of parcels to prisoners; and of letters to and from prisoners.
§ Sir J. GriggIn view of the length of my answer and of the interest hon. Members have taken in this matter I will, with permission, Sir, give it at the end of Questions.
Later—
§ Sir J. GriggOn 17th November I gave the House an account of the conditions and treatment in prisoner of war camps in Siam during 1942 and 1943 derived from preliminary information obtained from prisoners rescued by the United States Navy from the sea in September last. All the information received from the British prisoners has now been collated and a full account is available in the Vote Office. This account confirms the preliminary statement I made, as well as the more detailed one issued by the Australian Government at the same time, and there is no doubt that the Japanese military authorities decided to construct the railway and road between Siam and Burma with all speed and regardless of the conditions under which the prisoners worked and of the cost in human life.
It is difficult to speak with any certainty of the numbers involved, but the best estimate we are able to make indicates that not less than 60,000 white prisoners, the figure is probably much higher, worked on the railway and road, of whom the great majority were from the United Kingdom or Australia. In addition, many thousands of Asiatics were used and the death rate amongst them was almost certainly much heavier than amongst the white men.
§ Mr. J. J. LawsonOn a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. Can we have order while this very important statement is being made?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Member's question has called attention to the fact that there is a lot of conversation going on round the House and I think it should cease.
§ Sir J. GriggAs regards the position in Siam after the completion of the railway in October, 1943, careful sifting of the information available shows, I am glad to say, that conditions did improve somewhat. I should make it clear to the House that these conditions are far below anything which would be regarded as reasonable for our prisoners of war in Europe. The men have, however, 1601 adapted themselves and become to some extent inured to these lower standards, while many of the conditions which caused such heavy sick and death rates in the jungle camps did not obtain in the rear camps to which the men were withdrawn. As a consequence there was apparently a very marked fall in the death rate and there is evidence to show that, on the whole, the prisoners were enjoying fair health and were in good spirits when the rescued men left Siam about July, 1944. In the rear camps round Banpong their huts were weather-proof, cooking and sanitary arrangements were hygienic, and there was some space and opportunity for exercise. We know that parties have gone from the rear camps to work in various parts of Siam, and we have no direct information regarding living or working conditions in those places. It has been ascertained that some of the limited Red Cross supplies which it has been possible to despatch reached these prisoners in Singapore from Lourenco Marques in 1942, and later, in Siam, supplies reached them from the Swiss Consul, Bangkok, whose funds for this purpose are provided by the British Red Cross War Organisation.
As I previously said, we have asked the Protecting Power to make the strongest possible protest regarding the past conditions in Siam and Burma. As to present conditions, we shall continue to press the Japanese to allow all camps in Siam and elsewhere to be inspected regularly by neutral observers, to make arrangements which will enable the Red Crass to send adequate relief supplies for all our prisoners, to improve the mail service to and from prisoners, and to notify within a reasonable period all casualties, past, present or future, affecting British prisoners of war.
May I repeat what I said to the House last Tuesday? The rescued men have shown themselves very willing and helpful in the long investigation; every scrap of information which they have given about their comrades in captivity or on the sunk transport is being sent to the next-of-kin concerned as soon as it has been sifted and checked. It would be unfair to relatives who have already suffered so much to send them information which had not been so scrutinized. I have great sympathy with the anxiety of relatives and of organisations of prisoners' 1602 relatives to speak with these men in person, but the men are few and the relatives concerned are, unfortunately, many. I appeal to them not to impose on these men new and onerous burdens. We have all the information they can give us, and it will be passed on to the relatives concerned. If, therefore, relatives do not hear anything from us it is because there is unhappily nothing new to tell them.
§ Sir A. KnoxCan my right hon. Friend say what is the position with regard to prisoners' parcels and mails?
§ Sir J. GriggI gave my hon. and gallant Friend a long answer on those points only last week.
§ Captain GammansCan my right hon. Friend say whether the ships which are supposed to have left Vladivostock, with supplies, have actually sailed; and has he any information to give to the House with regard to the telegraphic service which he hoped to be able to fix up, and about which an announcement was made about a month ago?
§ Sir J. GriggI have nothing fresh beyond the information which I gave in answer to a Question last week by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Wycombe (Sir A. Knox).
§ Mr. GallacherIn view of the very deep feeling that exists throughout the country, would the Minister assure the House and those interested that every conceivable step is being taken by his Department, and by the Foreign Office, to protect and care for the interests of prisoners in Japanese hands?
§ Sir J. GriggI can certainly give that assurance. It is a very constant preoccupation not only of the War Office and Foreign Office, but of every other Government Department concerned, and of the American authorities.
§ Mr. Edgar GranvilleAs the Minister knows, many of the rescued men have been on leave and have given certain information to next-of-kin about relatives who have died. The War Office have told these men that they must not give that information and relatives are, therefore, to be left in a state of uncertainty. Can he say whether information to the next-of-kin is now to be given officially?
§ Sir J. GriggTo the best of my recollection, yes, subject to this: The information 1603 we get from returned prisoners—there were only about 60 of them—is not passed on until a cross-check is applied. This is extremely important.
Miss WardCould my right hon. Friend say what kind of cross-checks he is able to apply, and how long relatives have to wait before the Department hands on the information which is obtained?
§ Sir J. GriggI think that most of the information has already been passed on.
§ Mr. John DugdaleAre all the prisoners who have returned members of the Armed Forces, or were any of them civilian internees?
§ Sir J. GriggI think I am right in saying that the information I have given applies entirely to the camps for military personnel. As I said in my original answer last week, it does not apply to camps in the Northern part of the Far East theatre, or to civilians.
§ Mr. BowlesMay I ask the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that sometimes the Foreign Office, sometimes the Secretary of State for War and sometimes the Minister of State make statements on questions relating to prisoners of war, he would consider setting apart one Minister whose sole preoccupation would be the interests of prisoners of war? I am sure it would give general satisfaction to relatives.
§ Mr. SpeakerThat does not arise now.
§ Mr. GranvilleMay I put this further point, Mr. Speaker, as it is one of some importance? Some rescued men have informed next-of-kin that they have taken part in the funerals of their comrades. Is that information waiting to be cross-checked, or has it been conveyed to the next-of-kin?
§ Sir J. GriggIf it is easy to verify immediately, it is passed on immediately, but if there is any question about the identity of the individual concerned it is, of course, cross-checked.