HC Deb 07 December 1944 vol 406 cc735-40
Mr. Arthur Greenwood

May I ask the Leader of the House whether he will state the Business for next week?

The Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Eden)

Yes, Sir. On Tuesday, 12th December, the Business will be the conclusion of the Debate on the Address, when, as I have already announced to the House, Debates will take place on Burma and rural housing. There will be a Motion to approve the continuance in force of the Proclamation relating to Orissa.

Wednesday, 13th December: Committee stage of Supplementary Estimates, including a Grant-in-Aid for Jamaica, details of which are forthcoming in the Vote Office; Second Reading of the Local Elections (Temporary Provisions) Bill, and Committee and remaining stages of the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill.

Thursday, 14th December: A Debate will take place on recruitment to established posts in the Civil Service, arising out of the Motion which stands on the Paper in the name of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer: [That this House approves the proposals contained in Command Paper No. 6567 for recruitment to established posts in the Civil Service during the reconstruction period.] Friday, 15th December: Report of Supplementary Estimates; Committee and remaining stages of the Local Elections (Temporary Provisions) Bill. Afterwards there will be an opportunity for a Debate on Poland, on the Motion for the Adjournment of the House.

Mr. Bellenger

Is it not necessary to introduce legislation to regularise the position of those hon. and right hon. Gentlemen who are serving overseas under certificates from the Prime Minister?

Mr. Eden

No, Sir, not at present. Not before early next year.

Mr. Molson

Does my right hon. Friend intend to give a day for the discussion of the White Paper on land utilisation? Perhaps he remembers saying that there would be an opportunity to debate it.

Mr. Eden

I do remember saying it. I have said one or two things like that, I am afraid, but I do not see any hope of getting to it before Christmas, although I agree that a Debate is desirable.

Mr. Buchanan

Yesterday I gave notice that I would ask the right hon. Gentleman for an opportunity to refer to Scottish housing during to-day's Debate, but I am wondering whether the terms of the Amendment which is to be taken will preclude it. One does not want to intervene in an English Debate in order to refer to Scottish matters, and I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether there is not some way of finding time for a separate Debate upon the terrible and deplorable conditions of housing in Scotland.

Major Lloyd

Before my right hon. Friend replies, I should like urgently to endorse the remarks of the hon. Member for Gorbals (Mr. Buchanan).

Mr. Eden

As regards some Debate on a future occasion, I certainly do not close my mind to it. I know the urgency of the problem which hon. Members rightly want to discuss, but I cannot promise that there will be an occasion for it between now and Christmas. On the other hand, I would suggest, subject of course to you, Mr. Speaker, that the terms of to-day's Amendment are wide enough to enable Scottish hon. Members to refer to Scottish housing. I should have thought there was no reason whatever why that should not be done, and I do not think Southern Members would take the least objection if hon. Members from Scotland should choose to do so.

Mr. Buchanan

None of us want to intervene to raise questions relating to Scotland which may have no relationship to the main course of the Debate, because that would be unfair to English Members. But the right hon. Gentleman is aware that Scottish housing was probably the worst problem in Britain until the bombing took place in London. I would therefore urge him to look again at the situation to see whether he can give us an opportunity for a Debate. I do not want to appear to be in conflict or in competition with English Members; all I want is to have something done to help to remedy the deplorable conditions in Scotland. I would ask the Leader of the House to consider this matter as an issue of importance.

Mr. Eden

I can tell the hon. Member now that I am perfectly willing to consider whether I can find a separate date for this important matter, but I certainly think he is wrong if he believes that a speech on Scottish housing will conflict with the general tenor of to-day's Debate. The Amendment, wisely, is widely drawn. It refers to: an adequate long-term housing programme.

Mr. Buchanan

Will it apply?

Mr. Eden

I think it applies equally to Scotland and to England. Hon. Members should, I suggest, seek to catch your eye, Mr. Speaker, in regard to Scottish housing, on the understanding that any such mention does not preclude our trying to arrange a date later on, as soon as we possibly can.

Lieut.-Colonel Elliot

May I put it to you, Mr. Speaker, that if some hon. Members from Scotland try to catch your eye on the occasion of the Adjournment of the House before Christmas, you might look favourably in their direction? I fully agree with the hon. Member for Gorbals (Mr. Buchanan) and my hon. and gallant Friend behind me (Major Lloyd). If a number of Scottish speeches were made to-day, they would call for a reply from a Scottish Minister. It would be no use making the speeches without a reply from a Minister, and that would contract the opportunity for the Debate which we know that many English Members, particularly those from the bombed areas, are anxious to have.

Mr. Speaker

I doubt very much whether such a Debate would be in Order on the Adjournment, because it would involve legislation.

Lieut.-Colonel Elliot

I have no doubt that the ingenuity of Scottish hon. Members would be sufficient to enable them to indicate that the administrative powers of the Secretary of State for Scotland, which are very wide, could be exercised with greater vigour than they are at present, and thus allow us to make the points which we wish to make without raising questions involving legislation.

Mr. Buchanan

One of my reasons for wishing to speak is that I wish to criticise the Secretary of State for Scotland for not using the powers which he now possesses. It is one of the things about which I feel deeply and strongly. I am proposing to concern myself not with future legislation, but with the powers which the Minister now possesses.

Mr. Lipson

In view of the importance of housing, might I ask the Leader of the House to agree to suspend the Rule to-day so that we may be able to have a proper discussion on the matter?

Mr. Eden

I am in the hands of the House. I have not done so because, from inquiries which I made, I thought there would be adequate time for Debate.

Mr. Lipson

Could not my right hon. Friend give further consideration to the matter?

Mr. Petherick

May I ask the Leader of the House how long he expects the first Order on Friday week will take, because I understand that we want to have the whole day devoted to the Polish question?

Mr. Eden

My hope is that the first Order will not take any time, since it is the Report stage of Supplementary Estimates that have already been discussed in Committee. I was hoping that it might be largely formal.

Mr. Stephen

Could we be told what form the Debate upon Greece to-morrow is to take; whether it is to be on the Motion for the Adjournment, or upon an Amendment to the Address?

Mr. Keeling

Would my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House consider further the question of giving us another hour to-day?

Mr. Bowles

Could we begin to stake out a claim for a Debate upon the recent Civil Aviation Conference in Chicago?

Mr. Eden

The hon. Member can begin staking out a claim, but I must not begin to make promises.

Mr. Speaker

In reply to the hon. Member for Camlachie (Mr. Stephen), all I know officially is that there is on the Order Paper an Amendment standing in the name of the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Mr. Cocks) which covers the question. I understand that another Amendment is to be put forward, and it may be that that would prove to be a more convenient one on which to have a Debate, but I am in the hands of the House.

Mr. McGovern

May I ask whether this other proposed Amendment which is considered likely to be more suitable, is one upon which no Division will take place? Is that why it is considered more suitable?

Mr. Speaker

I have not had time to look at the proposed Amendment. When hon. Members have had time to see it, then perhaps we can decide.

Mr. Stephen

Hon. Members will be lost if they do not know the terms of the proposed Amendment before to-morrow, and I wonder if there is not some way by which its terms could be given to us to-day?

Mr. Speaker

That is one of the difficulties about Amendments which are handed in shortly before a Debate. I must consider the Amendment and I cannot give a decision offhand. My feeling at the moment is that there is now a satisfactory Amendment on the Paper which would enable the whole issue to be raised.