HC Deb 19 April 1944 vol 399 cc201-5
Mr. Granville

May I ask a question on Business? I would ask the Deputy Prime Minister whether it is the inten- tion of the Prime Minister to make any statement to Parliament on the power, recently taken by Regulation to deal with industrial disputes?

Mr. Attlee

I have had no notice of this question. Perhaps the hon. Member will repeat it to-morrow.

Mr. Maxton

But surely this is a matter of public business. Is there no Minister who can answer the hon. Member's question. [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer,"] Does the Minister realise that the Government have been shouting this matter all over the country and that it is a matter of major policy? It is the Government's great contribution to industrial peace. Could not the Patronage Secretary tell us something about it?

Mr. Granville

In view of the statement in this morning's Press, that the Regulation came into force on Sunday, is it not the duty of the Government to make a statement to Parliament at the first available opportunity?

Mr. Attlee

I think the Regulation is perfectly clear. The hon. Member gave no notice that he wanted any further information.

Mr. A. Bevan

In view of the statement made over the radio last night that both the Employers' Confederation and the General Council of the Trades Union Congress had concurred in the new Order before it was made, and therefore that they have been consulted, is Parliament not to be consulted? Are our constituents to be exposed to five years' imprisonment by a law made behind our backs?

Mr. Attlee

There are constitutional methods of raising this matter.

Mr. Shinwell

While appreciating that this is not the most opportune moment for raising this question—[HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"]. Let me express my own view—are we not entitled to expect from the Government an indication of when they propose to give to the House an explanation of what is, in fact, major policy? Can we not have some indication about that now?

Mr. Bevan

As there is upon the Order Paper a Prayer in my name and the names of some of my hon. Friends, dealing with this matter, will the Deputy Prime Minister inform us when he proposes to give us facilities to discuss that Prayer?

[That an humble Address be presented to His Majesty, praying that the Order in Council dated 17th April, 1944, made under the Emergency Powers (Defence) Acts, 1939 and 1940, amending Regulation 1A of, and adding Regulation 1AA to, the Defence (General) Regulations, 1939, a copy of which Order was presented on 18th April, be annulled.]

Mr. Attlee

My attention has just been drawn to it. We have, of course, to consider the matter. Obviously, when there is a demand for a discussion of a matter like this, the matter has to be considered and the wishes of the House met, if possible.

Mr. Shinwell

In the meantime, I am bound to say that my right hon. Friend is a little mystifying about this matter, particularly because he will not give some indication of the Government's intention. Are we to understand that the law can now be invoked under these Regulations but that the Government cannot give some indication of when will be an appropriate moment for debating it? Can we not have some indication about it?

Mr. Attlee

Obviously if there is a desire that the matter should be debated a convenient moment will have to be found. [Interruption.] I know it is exempted Business. I think there is already a Prayer down to-day.

Mr. Bevan

I desire to make my statement to suit the convenience of the Government. I need not consult the Government at all about the matter, but as it is for the convenience of the House that proper arrangements shall be made for the discussion of an important matter of this sort, I desire my right hon. Friend to tell me when he would consider it to be convenient for the Government and the House to debate the Prayer which is down in the name of my hon. Friends and myself.

Mr. Attlee

I should like to have a short opportunity for consultation and to consider what may be for the convenience of hon. Members.

Sir Percy Harris

Do not the Government think it proper when it is necessary to take such drastic powers, to discuss them with Parliament, and explain to the House and to the country why they are taking such measures?

Mr. Stokes

May I ask the Deputy Prime Minister, in view of the answer he has given, whether he will tell us before the House rises to-day when he proposes to have this discussion?

Mr. Attlee

It would be more normal to announce it on Business to-morrow. I will have to consider that.

Mr. Rhys Davies

In view of the importance of this Regulation, could the Deputy Prime Minister assure the House that no prosecutions will be instituted under it until Parliament decides?

Mr. Gallacher

Does not the Deputy Prime Minister consider it to be the responsibility of the Government, in view of the fact that it already has sufficient power, to give an explanation to this House of the reason for bringing forward such a serious proposition as this Regulation, and not to leave it to Private Members to put down a Prayer? Surely the least we can expect is that the Government will put forward the Minister to explain the reasons why it was necessary to take such a drastic step.

Mr. Mander

On another question of Business. May I ask whether the Government will consider the advisability of suspending the Rule to-morrow, in view of the large number of Members who wish to take part in the Debate on the Dominions?

Mr. Attlee

I would point out that there are two days allotted for this Debate, and I should have thought that what the hon. Member suggests was unnecessary.

Mr. Bevan

I do not want to press my right hon. Friend for a definite answer now about the time for the discussion of the Prayer, but could he give us an assurance that before the House rises to-day, the House will be informed of when the Government think it convenient to discuss the Prayer?

Mr. Attlee

I shall endeavour to do so.

Mr. Maxton

Will the Deputy Prime Minister also recognise that the onus should not be placed on back benchers to choose the opportunity, and that this should not be debated on a Prayer, which is exempted Business, after the normal House of Commons hours? This matter should be given a proper place, and there should be a full day for this Debate on major policy. It raises matters that were discussed for weeks in the House during the passage of the Trades Disputes Act. Now this has been done in five minutes, and we are told that it is only by back bench methods that the House can be fully informed on the subject. Will the Deputy Prime Minister consider giving this matter a full day?

Mr. Attlee

It is obviously a matter that needs discussion. Some Members suggest proceeding by way of a Prayer; the hon. Member suggests another method. I should like to have an opportunity of discussing the point and getting the sense of the House.

Mr. Shinwell

I wish to ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether you would accept a Motion, on a matter of urgent public importance, namely, that the Government have entered into an arrangement with outside bodies affecting the law in relation to the citizens of this country, without coining to Parliament?

Mr. Speaker

I could not accept such a Motion for it is perfectly obvious that an hon. Member can put down a Prayer and choose his own time—to-morrow if he likes—and that it can be debated tomorrow if he desires.

Sir H. Williams

Could the Deputy Prime Minister say whether it is proposed to take to-day the two Motions relating to the Purchase Tax, or will they be postponed until next week?

Mr. Attlee

They will not be taken today.