LOCAL GOVERNMENT REFORM

HC Deb 22 September 1943 vol 392 cc194-8

45 and 46. Major Mills

asked the Prime Minister (1) what steps for the reform of local government and the redistribution of the powers and duties of the various categories of local authorities are being contemplated; and whether before definite proposals are brought forward either consultation will take place with representatives of the authorities affected or a Royal Commission will be set up to inquire and advise;

(2) whether, in respect of any local government services in which a Minister desires action to be taken over a wider area than that represented by the jurisdiction of any single local authority, care will be taken to secure that the new area will be the same for all such services so that local government may not be confused by each such service being allotted its own area by the Ministry concerned, quite regardless of other widening services and the views of other Ministers?

47. Mr. De la Bére

asked the Prime Minister, whether, in view of the transfer, by means of Orders in Council, of the powers of local government and county councils to the Ministry of Health in connection with the national health service, the Ministry of Agriculture in connection with agricultural education and other services, the Ministry of Transport in connection with Class i roads and the Board of Trade in connection with weights and measures, he will now give an assurance that it is not the intention of the Government to transfer by this means the work and duties of the county councils to a central body?

The Prime Minister (Mr. Churchill)

It is, I am assured, generally agreed that there is a strong case for the expansion and improvement of many local government services and that we should be ready with plans for execution at the end of the war. I am aware of the fears voiced by the Associations of local government bodies lest the Government, in putting forward proposals for such changes, should pay insufficient regard to their cumulative effect upon the existing local government system.

The Government have given the fullest consideration to the representations that have been made to them to the effect that before any important changes in particular services are decided upon there should be a comprehensive and authoritative inquiry into the general machinery of local government. It is clear that such an inquiry would involve the taking of much evidence and the consideration of many highly controversial issues going far beyond those raised by the plans for meeting post-war needs in regard to particular services. It would consequently occupy much time, and the results might not in the end find general acceptance. The delay involved would be highly prejudicial to the success of our post-war plans, and in the circumstances it is not the intention of the Government to embark on a comprehensive inquiry into the machinery of local government at the present time.

The Government are, however, very much alive to the need for avoiding any weakening of the structure of local government and I can give the assurance that in framing any proposals in relation to particular services for submission to this House, the Government will pay the most careful regard to this factor.

A letter which is being addressed to the Associations will be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Mr. De La Bére

Is the Prime Minister aware that the great danger to be guarded against is centralised bureaucracy in Whitehall?

Viscountess Astor

Is the Prime Minister aware also that the war has shown many weaknesses which will have to be removed later on, and that I hope he will soon get someone to consider it, even if we cannot have a Commission?

Major Petherick

Are we to understand from the answer that the inquiries that are to proceed will take place after the war and that they will be instituted and carried out by an impartial body, such as a Royal Commission or a joint Select Committee of both House of Parliament?

The Prime Minister

We will see when we get a little nearer the end of the war, and I shall be glad to take up that point.

Following is the letter from the Minister without Portfolio to Sir Harry G. Pritchard, Association of Municipal Corporations, and Sir Sidney Johnson, County Councils Association.

"22nd September, 1943.

With my colleague, the Minister of Health, I was very glad to have the opportunity recently of discussing the question of an inquiry into the machinery of local government with yourself and the other members of the deputation from the Association of Municipal Corporations and the County Councils Association. I am now able to give you the considered reply which we then promised.

I would like to say at the outset that no aspect of your case met with a readier acceptance in our minds than your reference to the immense value of the system of local government which has been handed down to us, and we wish in the most categorical manner to repeat the assurances we gave at the time that it is no part of the plans, either of ourselves or of our colleagues, to allow this great heritage to be destroyed: rather are we convinced of the need to develop it still further. For I think that your associations recognise, no less than we do, that the system is the result of a long process of growth and constant adaptation to changing conditions, and that if it is to continue to play its full part in the life of the nation this process of adjustment must continue.

There is, however, as you yourselves appreciate, a strong case for the extension and improvement of many of our services, some involving fundamental changes, and for plans to this end to be ready for execution after the war. It is in the light of this position that we have to consider the proposal of your associations that there should be a comprehensive inquiry into our local government system before making any important changes in particular services.

Under normal conditions and assuming there were no special urgency in regard to any of the proposed changes, we readily admit that there would be much force in this suggestion, but conditions are not normal and the need for many of the reforms now in contemplation is urgent. I think that our discussions made it clear that any inquiry to be of value must be both wide and authoritative and, whether it were conducted by a Royal Commission or by a different and perhaps speedier tribunal, must involve the taking of much evidence and the consideration of many highly controversial issues. Frankly, we can see no way of putting through an inquiry such as local authorities and the general public would regard as authoritative under one year, and the period might well run to several.

Furthermore, we entertain very little hope that the report of the tribunal when received—even if it were unanimous—would find general acceptance. It would be certain to involve issues far wider than those raised by the departmental plans for meeting reconstruction needs in regard to particular services and until these issues had been ultimately decided by Parliament, little progress could be made with such plans: indeed it is not too much to say that the delays involved in a comprehensive inquiry of this character are likely to be highly prejudicial to the success of our post-war plans.

It is after the most careful consideration of this prospect that the Government have come to the conclusion, that they would not be justified in deferring further consideration of the various Departmental proposals affecting particular services until the whole position had been the subject of a comprehensive inquiry. As I have already said, however, the Government are very much alive to the need for avoiding any weakening of the structure of local government. When, therefore, they consider any proposal for a change in a particular service, the effect which that change is likely to have on local government is one of the principal factors to which they give consideration; but it is not, and cannot be, the only factor, and there may be occasions when improvements in particular services, for which there is a clear case, can only be brought about at the cost of some modification of local government structure.

(Sgd.) WILLIAM A. JOWITT."

68. Sir W. Davison

asked the Minister without Portfolio when the Government expect to be in a position to announce their proposals for local government reform; and whether he can assure the House that no action will be taken by curtailing the existing responsibilities of local authorities which is likely to prevent the best type of resident from continuing to serve on such bodies?

The Minister Without Portfolio (Sir William Jowitt)

In regard to the first part of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer by the Prime Minister to previous Questions. In regard to. the second part, the point raised is one which the Government will certainly bear in mind when considering the cumulative effect of proposals relating to particular local government services.

Sir W. Davison

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that action has already been taken in withdrawing services from local authorities which they have hitherto satisfactorily administered with the general approval of all their citizens?

Sir W. Jowitt

In every case that consideration has been, and in the future will be, borne in mind.

Mr. Loftus

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman consider a Royal Commission to go into the whole question of local government?

Sir W. Jowitt

The hon. Member was here and heard the Prime Minister deal with the matter.