HC Deb 21 September 1943 vol 392 cc35-7
Mr. William Brown

I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing.a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the penalties imposed upon officers responsible for the ill-treatment of British soldiers.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member asks leave to move the Adjournment of the House, but, as a matter of fact, the Adjournment of the House is the Business of the Day, and therefore the Motion must fall of its own accord. Whether the hon. Member catches my eye or not is another matter.

Mr. Gallacher

On a point of Order. Are we not entitled to have an opportunity of challenging the decision of the Leader of the House that the suspension of the Rule should be limited to an hour and a half, in view of the importance of the Debate? Is it not the case that the Leader of the House is using a special privilege given by the House far too frequently and to the disadvantage of Members of the House?

Mr. Speaker

The Motion cannot be debated. It will be put to the House and can be divided on if necessary, and that is how the hon. Member must make his protest.

Mr. Silverman

In view of the large number of Members who would like to take part in the Debate and for whom the opportunity will be almost impossible, need the House really rise only an hour and a half later? Could it not continue in order to allow as many as possible to get in?

Mr. Speaker

That has nothing to do with me.

Earl Winterton

May I ask you, Sir, to clarify your Ruling in this matter? When it is sought to move the Adjournment on a definite matter of urgent public importance, your predecessors have ruled either that the question is not a definite matter of urgent public importance or, if they have admitted that it is, and the Member wishing to move it obtains the support of 40 Members, the Adjournment has been moved. As far as I know, this is the first occasion upon which an attempt has been made to move such a Motion when there has been what may be called an ordinary Adjournment Motion before the House. Does it mean that any Member who feels that a matter is both definite and urgent would have the right on another occasion to seek to move the Adjournment of the House?

Mr. Speaker

I do not think that follows at all. As a matter of fact, if a Member had a right to move the Adjournment on a definite matter of urgent public importance at a later date, it could not be urgent now.

Mr. A. Bevan

How can a Motion which has not been moved take precedence over a Motion which has been moved? There is at the moment no Motion before the House. The Motion of the hon. Member for Rugby (Mr. W. Brown) therefore takes precedence over any other Motion, under the Standing Orders of the House. The fact that the Government have intimated their intention of moving the Adjournment is not, in my respectful submission, a matter of which you, Mr. Speaker, ought to take cognisance in considering the Motion of the hon. Member for Rugby. I therefore respectfully suggest that my hon. Friend's Motion take precedence over any privately notified intention.

Mr. Speaker

The answer is quite simple. If the hon. Member's Motion had been accepted, it would have come on at a later hour, and we would already then have been discussing the Question, "That this House do now adjourn."

Mr. Bevan

May I further submit, Mr. Speaker, that you have not yet applied yourself to the other issue of whether you would in fact accept the Motion of my hon. Friend the Member for Rugby, and so we do not now know whether that Motion is one that you would accept and therefore fix a time for?

Mr. Speaker

If it might ease the situation, I may tell the hon. Member at once that I would not have accepted the Motion to which he refers.

Earl Winterton

May I, with great respect, point out—[Interruption]— Surely, I am entitled to raise a point of Order. There has never before in my knowledge been an occasion where, permission having been sought from your predecessor to move the Adjournment on a definite matter of urgent public importance, Mr. Speaker has not indicated whether or not he was prepared to accept it.

Mr. Speaker

I believe that there are several precedents where permission has not been granted on similar grounds.