HC Deb 23 November 1943 vol 393 cc1436-8
34. Sir Herbert Williams

asked the Home Secretary what steps he proposes to take to prevent the police acting in future as agents provocateurs, as they did in the case against Dr. Goldsmith, which was heard at the North London Police Court on 16th November?

Mr. Peake

The limits within which the police are justified in giving opportunities to a person to commit an offence in order to obtain evidence against him are set out in the Report of the Royal Commission on Police Powers and Duties, which recognised that there are certain types of case in which it would be impossible for the police to carry out their duty of enforcing the law without the adoption of such methods. The police are, however, well aware that the Courts will always scrutinise most narrowly the evidence of any witness who can be represented as having encouraged or procured an offence which would not otherwise have been committed, and no action on the part of my right hon. Friend is required to remind the police of the great care which must be taken in cases of this kind. I may, perhaps, add that I am not aware of anything in the case to which my hon. Friend refers which need cause anxiety to a doctor who accepts in good faith a statement made to him by one of his patients.

Sir H. Williams

In this case were not three men encouraged by the police to go to a doctor and make a statement which they and the police knew to be false? Is not this a most undesirable procedure?

Mr. Peake

I think there is a clear distinction, which is well understood by the police, between incitement to commit an offence, which is wholly wrong and which is a disciplinary offence, and the employment of subterfuges in order to obtain evidence where habitual offences are reasonably suspected and there are no other means available to the police of procuring the necessary evidence.

Sir H. Williams

Does my right hon. Friend think that the action of the police in this case was justified?

Mr. Peake

We have noted the view of the learned magistrate, and any necessary action will be taken.

Dr. Haden Guest

Does the right hon. Gentleman really think it is necessary to employ these offensive Gestapo methods against anyone in the medical profession? Does he not know that it is intensely resented that this should be done and that it is possible to find out what a doctor is doing otherwise than by this unfortunate procedure?

Commander Sir Archibald Southby

Has my right hon. Friend's attention been called to the remarks of the learned magistrate who tried the case, and does he not think it most unfair to the police themselves that they should have to take this kind of action?

Mr. Peake

I have said that we have taken note of the remarks of the learned magistrate and that any necessary action will be taken.

Mr. Levy

Are we to understand that the Government recognise the employment of agents provocateurs in these cases, because that is what they are doing in a number of instances, and provoking the very evils which we are endeavouring to avoid?

Mr. Peake

I have made it quite clear that the police would not countenance the employment of agents provocateurs. It it not a case where there was incitement to commit an offence.