HC Deb 30 March 1943 vol 388 cc61-7
The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. James Stuart)

I beg to move, That Mr. Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Clerk of the Crown to make out a new Writ for the electing of a Member to serve in this present Parliament for the County of Northampton, with the Soke of Peterborough (Daventry Division), in the room of Captain the Right Hon. Edward Algernon FitzRoy, deceased.

Mr. Cocks

I rise to oppose this Motion, or to ask for it to be postponed until the register at Daventry has been brought up to date. I will endeavour to follow your Ruling, Sir, in confining my remarks to Daventry itself. It is a notable and important constituency but, for reasons which we all know, there have been no elections there for many years. [Interruption.] Anyhow, there has not been an election for some time, and it is important that, when an election takes place, the views of the people of Daventry shall be properly represented and declared. Daventry has suffered from the general shifting and movement of the population which have taken place since the war. It is estimated that 5,000,000 people have left their old constituencies, and Daventry will suffer from its proportion of that number. In the last three months, owing to the operations of the Minister of Labour, who has been busy in transferring labour, there is no doubt that there will be a considerable increase. Secondly, in Daventry there is a large number of young men and women who have reached the age of 21 since 1939—that is to say, they are entitled to vote—and there is a large number of people between 21 and 25 who are now disenfranchised. That is very unsatisfactory. In Daventry as elsewhere large numbers of young men and young women between 21 and 25 have no right to vote at the present time. The effect upon these young people may be two-fold. Naturally they will have their minds to some extent divorced from Parliamentary institutions, and I think we would all agree that that is a very bad thing. What is even more serious is that a great many of them will be-discontented. They will feel that they suffer from an injustice and I think they do suffer from an injustice, because if anybody at all in this country should have a prior right to vote, that right should surely belong to the young men and women in * See Columns 1–5. the Forces and in the factories who are working and fighting to save the country.

There may be in Daventry young pilots who fought in the Battle of Britain and who helped to save this country and this Parliament—this very building—and to preserve our whole existence as a nation. Is it not a shameful thing that those who preserved Parliament should not be allowed to vote for Parliament? This is a very serious matter. I do not think the Government dare allow such a state of things to continue, and I was surprised that the Prime Minister did not force his Government, or those people in his Government who are responsible, to wake up and to see that the men who fought in the Battle of Britain and the men and women who are working in our munition factories and serving in the Forces are given the vote. What will happen in Daventry? I can only explain what will happen there by pointing out what has happened in three or four by-elections recently. I think it is important to show this. In one case recently, at the General Election 34,972 voted, but at the by-election only 19,723 voted.

Mr. Speaker

The general question of by-elections is not in Order now. We must confine ourselves to the particular matters affecting Daventry.

Mr. Cocks

I understand that, and I shall endeavour, Mr. Speaker, to follow your Ruling. I was trying to show, by analogy, what will happen when an election takes place in Daventry by referring to what has happened at the last three or four by-elections.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member is carrying the illustration rather far.

Mr. Cocks

I bow to your Ruling, Sir, and I will not carry it any further—not even as far as the Portsmouth by-election, which, although I am very glad it sent us the genial admiral who now represents North Portsmouth (Sir W. James), rather pricked the bubble of having by-elections on the present register. The people of Daventry realise that this House is eight years old and is getting rather stale. Therefore it is very important that from Daventry should come somebody to this House who will represent the views of the younger generation. Opinion in Daventry as elsewhere has changed since 1935 and in my view the change has been towards the Left.

Mr. Speaker

It is not good enough to bring in the name of Daventry occasionally while using general arguments.

Mr. Cocks

I brought in the name "Daventry," of course, since I wished to keep as far as I could within your Ruling, and I am very grateful to you, Sir, for having allowed me to go on so far. At the same time, I must admit that I am not yet convinced that arguments which can be applied to the general idea of by-elections should not be applied to one by-election in particular. It is very difficult to draw the distinction. I was about to say certain other things, but in view of your Ruling I will not do so, and I conclude with this sentence. There is a rumour, which I think the Government ought to dispel at once by their action in this matter, that their reluctance to alter the present state of things, is due to the fact that people in Daventry have economic views which do not coincide with those of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. That is an appalling suggestion, and I think the Government would do well to show that it is untrue by suspending the issue of the Writ until they have given the young people the vote.

Sir Richard Acland

On a point of Order. Is this a new issue, or is it the same issue as that which we were discussing an hour ago? If it is the same issue, I understood that I had moved an Amendment and that my hon. Friend was seconding it. If it is a new issue, and if my hon. Friend has now moved an Amendment, I would beg leave to second it.

Mr. Speaker

This Debate starts de novo.

Sir R. Acland

It does not seem to me that there is any prospect that further arguments will alter the views of the Government, and therefore a straight fight in opposition is the only way in which hon. Members, who feel that the answers so far given to them are unsatisfactory, can show their purpose. All I want to do now is to repeat what I said when this issue came up before and what I am certain is true—that if you can register people for chocolate rations and for fire-watching, you can register them for democracy.

Mr. Bellenger

I wish to put a new point to the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary on the present position in relation to Daventry and with the permission of the House I would refer to King's Regulations. The present position concerning those soldiers who have the vote and who want to be registered is this. It is in Appendix 10 of King's Regulations: Officers and soldiers who are duly qualified are entitled to be registered as military voters for the address in Great Britain or Northern Ireland at which they would have been residing if not serving in the Army. It goes on to say in paragraph 2 (b): Officers commanding units will accordingly see that a copy of the instruction is given to every officer and soldier who is 21 years of age or over and not already registered. I have reason to believe that considerable numbers in Daventry who have been called up by Act of Parliament are not registered because they have not been given that opportunity under King's Regulations. My first point is that many of those who are entitled to vote or who were entitled to vote when the last register was made, are disfranchised at present because commanding officers have not done their duty.

Mr. Speaker

I think this is very far away from the actual situation in Daventry.

Mr. Bellenger

With respect, Sir, I wish to make this submission. I wish to ask the Home Secretary, or the Secretary of State for War, how many of those who should be entitled to vote in Daventry either by recording their crosses on the ballot paper or by proxies are registered. My case is that in Daventry there are many such. Of course the House will see that this relates to other constituencies as well, but I do not want to press that point except to say to the Prime Minister that this issue, which arises in Daventry and which will be repeated in other constituencies, will have to be faced by the Government. It is no use saying to those in Daventry who are in the Forces—probably thousands of them—that they are not to have the vote, that they are not to have any say in connection with this House, for the duration of the war and probably some time after the war.

I seriously call the attention of the Prime Minister to this issue. There are difficulties in the way. We are all aware of that, but I think the Government ought to be frank with us. The Prime Minister ought to take the House more into his confidence on this matter. The House is not unreasonable in this respect. I think I speak for Members in all quarters when I say that all the House desires is to get some representative result from the electors, whether those electors happen to be in the Forces or in industry.

Those electors of Daventry who happen to have been directed to munition factories or happen to be serving in industry and not in the Forces have an advantage over their colleagues who have been called to the Colours. I suggest to the Prime Minister that this issue cannot be shelved for too long. Otherwise there will be deep discontent among those electors at Daventry who are serving in the Forces. Every lecturer who goes round the Army or to Ministry of Information meetings knows the point. It is raised in question by soldiers in uniform although they are supposed to take no part in meetings. Therefore the Government cannot put their heads in the sand and affect to ignore this issue.

I earnestly beg the Prime Minister to give us more information than he has given to-day. It would not be difficult, at any rate it would not be impossible, for the Armed Forces to overcome the difficulty, although the Prime Minister affects to see many insuperable difficulties. The Canadian Forces have an opportunity, whether they be serving at home or overseas, of recording their votes. Why, therefore, should not the electors of Daventry, much smaller in numbers than the Canadian Forces, have their opportunity of having a say as to who should represent them in the House of Commons? If the Government ignore this matter any further, we shall make a farce of our democratic institutions. We are having Members—and possibly in the case of Daventry we shall have it again—returned to this House on a very small suffrage. The Prime Minister, who is such a great democrat and upholder of our constitutional liberties, should be the first to try and put this matter right.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Churchill)

I hope the House will be ready to come to a conclusion on this Question. There is important Business to be taken, on which a great many Members desire to speak, affecting the whole situation in India. It is not correct, as the hon. Gentleman says, that the Government are ignoring this question. I gave an answer in exactly the opposite sense and said that we were considering it actively with a view to seeing whether the difficulties can be solved. Our desire is that eligible people should be able to vote at by-elections. At the same time, with that candour and frankness which the hon. Gentleman urged me to display, but which I thought I had anticipated, I also stated that I thought from what I had heard that the difficulties appeared very considerable, and it might well be that on a survey of the advantages on the one hand and the difficulties and complications on the other, especially when it comes to the Army under the prevailing conditions of war, it might be thought better by the Government, and the House might endorse their view, that we should not make the changes that are required. I agree with the view that some further statement is needed from the Government when our survey of this matter has been completed, and I hope that something may be said by my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary even before we rise for the Easter Recess. I say that to show that the Government's position is not at all one of ignoring the matter or of dull resistance, but that it will be a position of giving the House the best advice and putting the pros and cons fairly before it. On the whole, I think that honesty must make me say that the prognosis looks somewhat adverse at the present time. It is a very odd remedy for those who wish to see more people vote that they should disfranchise all the others. That is certainly illogical and inconsistent, and to seek to disfranchise the people of Daventry, of whom we have heard so much to-day, is a tendency which should certainly be resisted by the House.

Question put, That Mr. Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Clerk of the Crown to make out a new Writ for the electing of a Member to serve in this present Parliament for the County of Northampton, with the Soke of Peterborough (Daventry Division), in the room of Captain the Right Honourable Edward Algernon FitzRoy, deceased.

The House divided: Ayes, 239; Noes, 12.

Division No. 12. AYES.
Adamson, W. M. (Cannock) Goldie, N. B. Oldfield, W. H.
Albery, Sir Irving Green, W. H. (Deptford) O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir H.
Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S. Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Paling, W.
Ammon, C. G. Grenfell, D. R. Palmer, G. E. H.
Anderson, Rt. Hon. Sir J. (Sc'h Univ.) Grey, Captain G. C. Peat, C. U.
Assheton, R. Griffiths, J. (Llanelly) Peters, Dr. S. J.
Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) Grigg, Sir E. W. M. (Altrincham) Petherick, Major M.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Grigg, Rt. Hon. Sir P. J. (Cardiff, E.) Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W.
Barr, J. Grimston, R. V. Pickthorn, K. W. M.
Barstow, P. G. Gunston, Major Sir D. W. Pilkington, Captain R. A.
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. Guy, W. H. Price, M. P.
Beattie, F. (Cathcart) Hambro, Capt. A. V. Procter, Major H. A.
Beauchamp, Sir B. C. Hannah, I. C. Purbrick, R.
Beaumont, Major Hn. R. E. B. (P'ts'h) Hannon, Sir P. J. H. Pym, L. R.
Beechman, N. A. Harris, Rt. Hon. Sir P. A. Raikes, Flight-Lieut. H. V. A. M.
Beit, Sir A. L. Heilgers, Major F. F. A. Rathbone, Eleanor
Bennett, Sir P. F. B. (Edgbaston) Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) Reed, Sir H. S. (Aylesbury)
Bevin, Rt. Hon. E. Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Reid, Rt. Hon. J. S. C. (Hillhead)
Blrd, Sir R. B. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Reid, W. Allan (Derby)
Blair, Sir R. Hicks, E. G. Ridley, G.
Boles, Lt.-Col. D. C. Hill, Prof. A. V. Russell, Sir A. (Tynemouth)
Boothby, R. J. G. Hinchingbrooke, Viscount Salt, E. W.
Bossom, A. C. Hogg, Hon. Q. McG. Sanderson, Sir F. B.
Boulton, W. W. Hopkinson, A. Schuster, Sir G. E.
Bower, Norman (Harrow) Horsbrugh, Florence Scott, Donald (Wansbeck)
Bower, Comdr. R. T. (Cleveland) Howitt, Dr. A. B. Scott, Lord William (Ro'b'h & Selk'k)
Brass, Capt. Sir W. Hughes, R. M. Selley, H. R.
Broad, F. A. Hulbert, Wing Commander N. J. Shute, Col. Sir J. J.
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Hume, Sir G. H. Simmonds, O. E.
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Hunter, T. Smith, E (Stoke)
Burden, T. W. Hutchinson, G. C. (Ilford) Smith, E. P. (Ashford)
Burgin, Rt Hon. E. L. Jeffreys, Gen. Sir G. D. Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)
Campbell, Sir E. T. (Bromley) Jennings, R. Smith, T. (Normanton)
Campbell, J. D. (Antrim) Johnston, Rt. Hon. T. (Stl'g & C'km'n) Southby, Comd. Sir A. R. J.
Cary, R. A. Jowitt, Rt. Hon. Sir W. A. Stanley, Col. Rt. Hon. Oliver
Challen, Flight-Lieut. C. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Strickland, Capt. W. F.
Channon, H. Kerr, H. W. (Oldham) Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- (Northwich)
Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) Kerr, Sir John Graham (Scottish U's) Stuart, Rt. Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) Kirby, B. V. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Charleton, H. C. Knox, Major-General Sir A. W. F. Sutcliffe, H.
Chorlton, A. E. L. Lamb, Sir J. Q. Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (P'd'ton, S.)
Churchill, Rt. Hn. Winston S. (Epp'g) Lawson, J. J. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Clarry, Sir Reginald Leach, W. Thomas, I. (Keighley)
Cobb, Captain E. C. Lennox-Boyd, A. T. L. Thomas, J. P. L. (Hereford)
Collindridge, F. Levy, T. Thomas, Dr. W. S. Russell (S'th'm'tn)
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Linstead, H. N. Thorne, W.
Cooper, Rt. Hon. A. Duff Little, Dr. J. (Down) Thorneycroft, H. (Clayton)
Courthope, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir G. L. Lloyd, Major E. G. R. (Renfrew, E.) Thurtle, E.
Craven-Ellis, W. Lloyd, G. W. (Ladywood) Touche, G. C.
Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Locker-Lampson, Commander O. S. Tree, A. R. L. F.
Daggar, G. Loftus, P. C. Tufnell, Lieut.-Comdr. R. L.
Dalton, Rt. Hon. H. Lyons, Major Sir J. M. Wakefield, W. W.
Davidson, Viscountess (H'm'l H'mst'd) Lyons. Major A. M. Walkden, E. (Doncaster)
Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) McCorquodale, Malcolm S. Ward, Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Davison, Sir W. H. Macdonald, Captain Peter (I. of W.) Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
De Chair, Capt. S. S. McEntee, V. La T. Waterhouse, Capt. C.
De la Bère, R. McEwen, Capt. J. H. F. Watkins, F. C.
Denville, Alfred McNeil, H. Watson, W. McL.
Dobbie, W. Maitland, Sir A. Watt, Lt.-Col. G. S. H. (Richmond)
Doland, G. F. Makins, Brig.-Gen. Sir E. Webbe, Sir W. Harold
Donner, Squadron-Leader P. W. Mander, G. le M. Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Douglas, F. C. R. Markham, Major S. F. Wells, Sir S. Richard
Dower, Lt.-Col. A. V. G. Marlowe, Lt.-Col. A. Welsh, J. C.
Drewe, C. Mathers, G. Westwood, J.
Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side) Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. White, H. (Derby, N.E.)
Dugdale, John (W. Bromwich) Mellor, Sir J. S. P. Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W. (Blaydon)
Dugdale, Major T. L. (Richmond) Messer, F. Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Ede, J. C. Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.) Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Edmondson, Major Sir J. Molson, A. H. E. Williams, Sir H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Edwards, Walter J. (Whitechapel) Montague, F. Williams, Rt. Hon. T. (Don Valley)
Emmott, C. E. G. C. Moore, Lieut.-Col. Sir T. C. R. Wilmot, John
Emrys-Evans, P. V. Morgan, R. H. (Stourbridge) Windsor, W.
Erskine-Hill, A. G. Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Universities) Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Etherton, Ralph Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.) Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir K. (Woolwich, W.)
Fox, Flight-Lieut. Sir G. W. G. Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Woodburn, A.
Fraser, T. (Hamilton) Mott-Radclyffe, Capt. C. E. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Fremantle, Sir F. E. Murray, Sir D. K. (Midlothian, N.) York, Major C.
Furness, Major S. N. Murray, J. D. (Spennymoor) Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Galbraith, Comdr. T. D. Nicholson, Captain G. (Farnham)
Gardner, B. W. Nicolson, Hon. H. G. (Leicester, W.) TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
George, Maj. Rt. Hon. G. Lloyd (P'b'ke) Noel-Baker. P. J. Mr. J. P. L. Thomas and Mr. A.
Young.
NOES.
Acland, Sir R. T. D. Gruffydd, W. J. Reakes, G. L. (Wallasey)
Bevan, A. Hardie, Agnes Stephen, C.
Bowles, F. G. Horabin, T. L.
Cooks, F. S. Kendall, W. D. TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Driberg, T. E. N. McGovern, J. Mr. Stokes and Mr. W. Brown