HC Deb 01 June 1943 vol 390 cc13-5
23. Mr. Levy

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power, why the Emergency Powers (Defence) Legal Proceedings (Local Fuel Overseers) Order (Statutory Rule and Order, 1943, No. 703), which is the enforcement order for the Emergency Powers (Defence) Coal (Miners) Order (Statutory Rule and Order, 1943, No. 702), was not included with the latter.

The Minister of Fuel and Power (Major Lloyd George)

These two Orders were made under different Defence Regulations, as they were different in character, object and scope, etc.

Mr. Levy

Does that not reinforce the argument that explanatory memoranda should be attached to these Orders? Why is the pledge which was given by my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary not being carried out by the Departments concerned?

Major Lloyd George

If one Order does one thing and the other Order does the other, I do not see what explanation can be offered.

Mr. Levy

Is my right hon. and gallant Friend suggesting that, because there are two objectives, nobody is to understand what the meaning of those two objectives is?

Sir H. Williams

Was not the purpose of one Order to enforce the provisions of the other, and as they are, therefore, closely associated, ought they not to be printed together?

Major Lloyd George

Not exactly. Under one Order 'the restrictions are laid down, and under the other the power is given to fuel overseers to take proceedings. Therefore, the proper way, I think, was to put them in separate Orders.

Sir H. Williams

Surely if we are told that a certain thing must be done and that there is a certain penalty for not doing it, the two things should be printed together?

Major Lloyd George

Under one Order there are Orders given in the Schedule, and the powers of the local fuel overseers to take proceedings for offences under them are laid down. The question is purely whether they should take proceedings on these new restrictions, and that is dealt with by a separate Order adding them to the Schedule.

4. Mr. Levy

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the purpose of the Emergency Powers (Defence) Motor Fuel (General Licence) Order (Statutory Rule and Order, 1943, No. 704)?

Major Lloyd George

The main purpose is to enable the owners of certain tractors to acquire kerosene for hauling timber, without the complications of a coupon scheme.

Mr. Levy

May I again ask the right hon. and gallant Gentleman whether the obligations involved in these Orders were simply explained? Why it is that we cannot get any explanatory memorandum attached to these Orders, as the pledge was given as far back as January, and it is not being honoured by the various Departments concerned; and will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman take notice of these Questions, which will have to be put down constantly and persistently until satisfactory explanations are given concerning them?

Major Lloyd George

We do, of course, when we get Orders that need explanation, put down an explanatory memorandum, but, looking through this Order, I find that it is extremely difficult to see what further explanation is needed.