HC Deb 22 July 1943 vol 391 cc1188-90
Sir Cyril Entwistle (Bolton)

I beg to move, in page 7, line 2, after "made," to insert: or whose appeal under this Act has been granted. I shall be willing to withdraw this Amendment, if the Attorney-General says it is not necessary, but as I read this Clause, it only gives an applicant a statutory right to a pension when he has already received the pension. It says that where the Minister has made an award, the claimant has a statutory right to a pension. So far as I can see there is no actual provision which says that when an appeal has been successful, there is any obligation on the Minister to make an award and entitle the claimant to a pension. I agree that it is unlikely that he will not make an award if the appeal is successful, but as this gives a statutory right I think it is tidier to have the words inserted to make sure that the right would flow, as a matter of course, from the appeal.

The Attorney-General

I am glad that my hon. and learned Friend has moved his Amendment because it enables me to make the position clear. The words are unnecessary because the award has to be made in all cases. The tribunal deals with the issue of, say, entitlement and you have to have an award. What the Bill means when it says that the decision of the tribunal is final and conclusive, is that, so far as an outside matter is concerned, the Minister has to make an award on that decision.

Sir C. Entwistle

Where does that appear? My right hon. and learned Friend has said that if a tribunal makes a decision, the Minister is bound to make an award. What provision of the Bill says so?

The Attorney-General

There is no express provision but that is the effect of showing that the decision is final and conclusive. As my hon. and learned Friend knows since the last war—and I think it is quite clear—the issue that goes to the tribunal in ordinary entitlement cases is not the issue of, for instance, the degree of disablement or the percentage amount that may come later on an interim assessment but the issue of entitlement. Then the Minister has to make an award and he has to consider all the various other provisions of the Warrant. But the issue of entitlement is concluded. There may be cases in which no award would follow. For instance, the Committee will remember the discussion last Tuesday with regard to parents' pensions. At present there is not an automatic flat-rate parent's pension. You may get an issue going to the tribunal of whether a son's death was due to war service. They may decide that it was, the Minister having decided that it was not. Then the Minister would have to direct himself to any questions under the Royal Warrant which determined what amount of pension would go to the parents in that case. The award has to follow on the decision of the tribunal. Therefore, the words which my hon. and learned Friend suggests are unnecessary.

Sir C. Entwistle

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir H. Morris-Jones

On a point of Order, Major Milner. Do you intend to call my Amendment in page 7, line 3, at the end, to insert: and such award shall commence as from the late on which Army pay and allowances ceased.

The Chairman

No, the Amendment is out of Order, because it goes beyond the terms of the Financial Resolution.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.