HC Deb 14 July 1943 vol 391 cc202-4
Mr. Arthur Greenwood

May I ask the Leader of the House whether he has any statement to make about the publication of the White Paper on changes in war pensions?

Mr. Eden

A White Paper on Changes in War Pensions is now available to hon. Members in the Vote Office. It may be convenient if I inform the House that it is proposed to take the promised Debate on War Pensions on the first day in the next series of Sittings. The Debate will take place in Committee of Supply on the Vote of the Ministry of Pensions.

Mr. Evelyn Walkden

Are we likely to discuss Amendments to the Royal Warrant in connection with the White Paper?

Mr. Eden

What is proposed is that we should discuss the changes set out in the White Paper.

Mr. Buchanan

Is the Leader of the House not aware that on Supply we are not allowed to discuss legislation and are only allowed to review the work of the Department? The White Paper must in some way involve legislative changes and cannot have anything to do with a review of the Department's work. Will the right hon. Gentleman, therefore, take steps to see that Members will not be curbed unduly, as they will be if the matter is discussed on Supply?

Mr. Eden

I have considered that, but I do not think my hon. Friend need have any anxiety. The White Paper deals with changes in the Royal Warrant, and everything in it will be, as I understand it, subject to the Ruling of the Chair, open to discussion.

Mr. Buchanan

The Ruling always is that we cannot discuss legislation on Supply. In some respects changes in the Royal Warrant may raise questions of legislative changes. In any case, the White Paper cannot have anything to do with a review of the work of the Department. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman could consider whether some form of Motion could be put down.

Mr. Eden

I do not think an amendment of the Royal Warrant requires legislation. However, it is naturally the desire of the Government that the discussion should be adequate, and I will consider the point my hon. Friend has made.

Commander Sir Archibald Southby

On a point of Order. May I ask for your guidance, Mr. Speaker? It may well be that Members of the Committee will want to make suggestions which go beyond what is contained in the White Paper, and it was suggested by my hon. Friend the Member for Gorbals (Mr. Buchanan) that they would not be in Order in a Debate on a Vote in Committee of Supply. May I ask whether it will be possible to discuss not only the contents of the White Paper but to go beyond the contents of the White Paper if what is said is in criticism of it or in criticism of the present state of affairs regarding pensions?

Mr. Speaker

That will be a matter for the occupant of the Chair in Committee, and therefore I cannot deal with it, but I should say off hand that Members would be discussing a Royal Warrant and not legislation and therefore that the suggestions which the hon. and gallant Member gave would probably be passed by the Chair.

Captain Cobb

Is it proposed to give only one day for this discussion?

Mr. Eden

I hope that will be adequate, but if there are many hon. Members who want to speak, we should consider suspending the Rule.