HC Deb 28 January 1943 vol 386 cc599-602
31. Sir Irving Albery

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, on what grounds a letter dated 11th January, addressed to the editor of "The Times," from Admiral Sir Barry Domvile, K.B.E., at present detained in Brixton gaol, was intercepted?

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Herbert Morrison)

Persons detained under Regulation 18B are allowed to communicate with relatives and friends, with legal advisers and with Members of Parliament; but the sending out of matter for publication stands on a different footing from the writing of letters to individuals. No distinction could be drawn between publications which take the form of letters to the Press and those which take other forms such as articles or pamphlets. Detention necessarily involves the curtailment of many activities, including propaganda activities.

Sir I. Albery

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have a copy of that letter in my possession? Has he any objection to my conveying the contents of it to this House on a proper occasion?

Mr. Morrison

The hon. Gentleman is perfectly at liberty to convey the contents of that letter to the House.

Sir I. Albery

Then I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment on the first possible occasion.

33. Mr. Boothby

asked the Home Secretary whether he has reached any decision on the question of consultation between persons detained under Regulations 18B and 125A and their solicitors?

Mr. Morrison

I have reviewed the practice which was adopted in the perilous circumstances of 1940 and have weighed the security arguments for this practice against the counter considerations; and while there may still occur from time to time cases where it is necessary for paramount reasons of public security to arrange that all interviews shall be in the hearing of a supervising officer, I have come to the conclusion that this ought to be an exceptional arrangement and that in present circumstances the general practice shall be to allow British subjects who are detained under Regulation 18B to have consultations with their legal advisers out of the hearing of an officer. This arrangement will apply to consultations with barristers and solicitors, but will not apply to cases where a solicitor sends to interview a detained person a clerk who is not an officer of the High Court. I am giving further consideration to this matter in connection with aliens detained under Article 12 (5A) of the Aliens Order, but this aspect clearly raises different considerations.

Mr. Boothby

In giving further consideration to this matter, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that an alien who is on trial for his life for espionage is entitled to consult a solicitor in private? Surely a similar right should be given to a detainee who is merely detained on suspicion?

Mr. Morrison

It does not at all follow that what might be appropriate in the case of a person tried for his life might be appropriate in a case of detention. While I do not wish to prejudice the issue one way or the other, I think the House will sympathise with me in being careful about persons who are not British subjects.

Miss Rathbone

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that aliens who have an imperfect knowledge of English really need the advice of solicitors even more than British persons? Is it not a great hardship if they are prevented from getting it?

Mr. Morrison

I do not think it is altogether unreasonable that there should sometimes be a preference for British subjects. There is no question of debarring an alien from legal advice. It is only a question of who is present when the interview takes places.

39. Mr. Edmund Harvey

asked the Home Secretary, whether he has been able to give consideration to the observations made by Lord Justice Goddard with reference to the position in prison of prisoners detained under Regulation 18B; and whether any improvements have been, or will be made in their position to meet the observations of the Lord Justice?

Mr. Morrison

The observations of the Lord Justice referred to the position in the summer of 1940 when it was necessary to provide accommodation in prisons for an unexpectedly large number of persons whose detention was ordered in the special circumstances then obtaining. As the House was informed, most of the persons detained under Regulation 18B were removed to camps in the Isle of Man as long ago as May, 1941. As regards those still accommodated in prisons, the number is small and the difficulties to which reference was made by the Lord Justice do not arise.

Mr. Harvey

Will my right hon. Friend consider the possibility of giving to those persons who are detained under Regulation 18B in this country equally good conditions as regards recreation and association as are given to prisoners of war?

Mr. Morrison

It is not practicable in present circumstances to handle the detainees in that way. We do all that we can within the limits of practicability, but as long as some of them—and there are very few—remain in prison, the circumstances must obviously present some difficulty.

Miss Rathbone

Is it not the case that the majority of those detained under Regulation 18B are in the Isle of Man, where they do have sufficient recreation?

Mr. Morrison

That is true of the great majority of them, and in the Isle of Man, subject to the loss of their liberty, they are not at all having a bad time. I can assure the House that they are having an infinitely better time than some of us would have had if they had had their way.