HC Deb 25 February 1943 vol 387 cc300-3
55. Major Lyons

asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in connection with the case of Mr. Sutton, of Leicester, who was discharged from the Army after some two years' service having been accepted as A1 on enlistment, he has considered the assurances given by him in the House on 6th August last; and when, where and by whom the independent medical examination of Mr. Sutton took place?

The Minister of Pensions (Sir Walter Womersley)

I have fully considered the case of Mr. Sutton in the light of my statement on 6th August last. All the evidence in this case, including all statements made by or on behalf of the man himself, were placed before an independent physician nominated by the President of the Royal College of Physicians about a month ago. This independent physician expressed the opinion that a personal examination was unnecessary in view of the medical evidence already available as to Mr. Sutton's condition. In the view of the independent physician, this condition is neither attributable to nor materially aggravated by war service, and, having regard to the nature of the disease from which Mr. Sutton is suffering, this is in no way inconsistent with symptoms not having been observable on enlistment.

Major Lyons

Is not the Minister aware that in a case like this it is ludicrous to say that he is returning this man for medical examination then and not have the man examined?

Sir W. Womersley

When I appoint, or ask the President of the Royal College of Physicians to appoint, an independent physician to adjudicate on the medical evidence, it is not possible for me to suggest what course he should take, as he would not then be independent of me or my Department. I must leave the matter entirely to his judgment.

Major Lyons

In view of the direct conflict between this case and the assurance given by the Minister, and in view of the shocking system it discloses of non-examination of these men, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter either on the Vote for the Minister's salary or upon the Motion for the Adjournment.

56. Mr. Oliver

asked the Minister of Pensions the grounds on which Mr. D. F. Gifford, of 46, High Street, Heanor, was refused an award of pension; whether he is aware that Mr. Gifford was medically examined and passed fit for service in June, 1941, notwithstanding his eye trouble; and to what cause, other than military service, the marked deterioration which has resulted in Mr. Gifford's discharge from the Army is attributed?

Sir W. Womersley

As I have already explained to the hon. Member, Mr. Gifford is suffering from an eye affection dating from well before his enlistment. Deterioration was equally possible whether he had remained in civil life or served in the Forces. I could accept his condition as materially aggravated if satisfactory evidence were submitted which would establish that the deterioration had been accelerated by some special factor of Army Service. So far such evidence has not been forthcoming, but if fresh facts are made available I shall always be prepared further to consider the case.

Mr. Oliver

Does not the Minister recognise that in this case the man was accepted into the Army suffering from this trouble, quite recently, about a year ago? If the man's present condition is not due to deterioration caused by Army service, what in heaven's name has caused it?

Sir W. Womersley

This man was accepted as Grade 2, and it was noted on his enlistment form that he was suffering from this eye trouble. He is exactly in this condition now. He was considered later by the Army authorities. His first acceptance was by the medical board appointed by the Ministry of Labour. Having examined him, the Army authorities thought it would be much better for him to return to his civil occupation.

Mr. Oliver

Is the Minister suggesting that this man was accepted into the Army when he was physically unfit? From the observations which have fallen from him I gather the Minister to have said that there was no change in the man's condition. If so, the man ought not to have been accepted into the Army.

Sir W. Womersley

I must repeat that it was noted on the paper that the man suffered from this trouble. It is only a matter of eye trouble. He is not a disabled man, and he can go back to his civil occupation and carry on. The Army medical board were quite right in suggesting that this man would perhaps be better in civil life.

Mr. Oliver

Does not the Minister realise that many of these men, when they are brought into the Army—

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

Captain Poole.

Captain Poole

Will the Minister please say why he always puts the onus upon the man rather than Where it rightly belongs, on his own Department?

Sir W. Womersley

I do not put the onus on the man. I collect together all the information that is possible, favourable to the man, to help him in presenting his case. That is the Regulation which I have laid down in my Department. I assure the hon. and gallant Member that he is entirely wrong.

Major Lyons

May I ask the Minister, on the original Question—

Mr. Deputy-Speaker rose

——

Major Lyons

On a point of Order. Can I have your Ruling whether I am entitled to ask the Minister, who has made two conflicting statements, why he has withdrawn the statement he made?

Hon. Members

No.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

The Minister has answered the Question which was put to him.

58. Dr. Little

asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in view of the resolution passed by a mass meeting of ex-Service men in Northern Ireland protesting against the harshness with which the Regulations of the Royal Charter are being administered, and demanding the setting-up in Northern Ireland of independent appeals tribunals to review appeals against the decisions of the Ministry of Pensions, he will have such tribunals set up at once in Northern Ireland?

Sir W. Womersley

I do not accept the view that the provisions of the Royal Warrant are being harshly administered, and the resolution contains no evidence to support this view. As I have informed the House, the whole question of Pensions Appeal Tribunals is at present under review by a Sub-Committee of my Central Advisory Committee.

Dr. Little

Will my right hon. Friend have strict inquiries made into these complaints of these ex-Service men, and see that the human touch is brought into operation and full opportunity given to them to state their case before independent tribunals?

Sir W. Womersley

A full opportunity is given to all these men to state their case before my local war pensions committees. There are these committees in Northern Ireland. That is the avenue at the present moment. I am pressing on as fast as ever I can with forming pensions appeal tribunals, and I submit to the House that we should not have had to deal with two Questions to-day if tribunals had been in existence.

Major Sir Ronald Ross

Is the Minister aware there are quite a number of complaints and a good deal of dissatisfaction about the present state of affairs in Northern Ireland?

Sir W. Womersley

I am well aware that as long as a Ministry of Pensions exists there will be both complaints and dissatisfaction.