HC Deb 17 December 1943 vol 395 cc1903-22
Mr. Creech Jones (Shipley)

This is not the occasion for a full Debate on East Africa, but the Labour Party have asked me to raise a matter which is causing them some apprehension. Consequently, we feel it is right that we should take what few opportunities present themselves in this House for directing attention to Colonial matters. Moreover, it is important that we should know what is the policy of the Government on certain Colonial affairs. There is, in many areas of the Colonial Empire, an increasing sense of urgency, and certain areas in Africa in particular, when the war is over, when the men who have been gathered up in the Forces return, and when some of our social programmes reach a bigger stage of fulfilment, will find their problems assuming somewhat alarming proportions unless it is clear where they are going and their policies are well thought out in advance.

Affairs in Kenya have disturbed the minds of many of my hon. Friends for a long time. It is not for me now to detail past history. I only want to say that in the last Debate we had in this House in which Kenya was discussed I referred to the condition of the Colony, to the deterioration of the native reserves, and I asked for a more positive policy of development. It was the occasion when I objected strongly to the application of forced labour. Since then, there has been a famine in the reserves and other parts. Some illuminating evidence has been given to the Famine Commission. In addition, new steps have been taken to initiate further European settlement.

Let me say right away that we are glad that for practical purposes the Government have abandoned the policy of forced labour except in the case of the growing of sisal. We felt that the extension a year or so ago of forced labour to tea and coffee was wrong: I would go so far as to say reprehensible. I am glad that the Government have taken the more sensible line of limiting forced labour, and I sincerely hope that before long even with sisal forced labour will be abandoned altogether.

I want also to say that my party welcome the announcement which was recently made by the Secretary of State in respect of development and welfare. The schemes which have been announced seem comprehensive and far-reaching, and they will bring immense benefit to the reserves, in fact to the Colony as a whole. As has been said, land, water, forest and roads are key words in Kenya, and we hope that the schemes of research and investigation and experiment will be urgently pushed on with, that there will be at the earliest possible date a getting-on with the big public works schemes that have been announced. We also hope that the Africans themselves will be quite definitely associated with all the work of development. We hope that all pains will be taken to get the staffs that are necessary for this great new work, and that as far as possible the returning soldiers, the Africans coming back, may be utilised, because with their new skill, the training they have had, they can make a very effective contribution, if wisely used, to the development of their own country. We feel it is not a moment too soon to get on with the job. The situation with regard to erosion, the need for irrigation, the replanting of forests, the attack on the tsetse fly and so on, all these matters are of grave urgency.

But alongside this work of development on the economic and material side we want to look forward in respect of social welfare, and we would like the creation of a Board of African Welfare and Development, in order that some of these problems shall receive a little more attention than they are apt to receive in the pre-occupations of the present moment. No one will be satisfied with the social standards which exist among the native peoples of Kenya, nor with the economic conditions, the conditions in the towns and the standards of wages which are paid. I would only direct attention—the Secretary of State has undoubtedly read it—to the Report of the Labour Officer, Mr. Allen, in which many deplorable and indefensible instances of exploitation and abominable conditions are exposed. These are conditions which ought to be brought to an end as early as possible and a wage policy thought out in respect of this part of Africa.

May I, therefore, again urge that the Secretary of State will consider whether at the earliest moment his Labour Adviser or some economic adviser can visit the territory with a view to bringing these economic and labour problems, as well as these social questions, under review? There is a growing apprehension in Kenya that things are not all right. Let me quote from the "East African Standard" of 9th August. In a leader they say: We are beginning to see cracks in the imposing structure that has been erected so quickly in a quarter of a century.… Right at the foundations is the African and his land … policy in the European areas is secondary to policy in the native reserves.… If policy in the native areas is faulty, if over-crowding continues and grows, with recurring and increasing fragmentation of the land as generation succeeds generation, if on the one hand we have the pressure of the inescapable demand for better living standards and on the other increasing difficulty facing an African who has to make the wherewithal out of soil which is steadily deteriorating it takes little imagination to see that there is trouble ahead. This apprehension as to the future is growing, and vigorous and comprehensive policies are, therefore, necessary. Perhaps some limit might be imposed on the sub-division of native lands, so that at least they shall be of family size. We should like to see an increase in mixed farming, the further adoption of co-operative practice, a ban on mortgages, a campaign for training the African in husbandry, and a development on the other side of economics, the founding of small industries. Any surplus population of Africans might then be assisted in the towns and be absorbed on useful work. A better social and economic balance could thus be secured in the Colony. This we regard as of great importance.

On the social side, we would like to see—and I am sure the Secretary of State is just as eager—an enormous expansion of community education, with particular attention to the women, with teaching of hygiene and of crafts as well. I need not refer to the fundamental importance of good health and nutrition for dealing with the great diseases which inflict and do so much harm and destruction on the people.

Now on this side of the House we are becoming apprehensive about a new development which is going on in regard to European settlement. I do not want to discuss the tragic history of the Colony so far as the Africans are concerned. My party have always opposed the white highlands policy and the eviction from those lands of the Africans. We have regarded that as utterly wrong, and we do not countenance it, even at the present time. Of 7,000,000 acres in European holding, only 10 per cent. is cultivated, and there are little more than 2,000 European farmers, after all the efforts of the past. The policy of European settlement has been costly to the Colony, and, most of all, costly to large numbers of the individuals who were attracted to settle in the Colony. The land offered was often of doubtful value, it was costly to work, and without the most elaborate economic arrangements it was work which was not calculated to pay. It certainly could not stand on its own economic basis. That colonisation has been sustained by subsidising from Colonial revenues, by distorting the natural economy of the Colony, and by neglect of the native areas: in 1939 the Report on soil erosion showed what a sorry plight the native reserves had got into. It has been sustained also by neglect of the vital social services and by a disparity in treatment between European and African in such matters as education and health. Indeed, that colonisation has been largely sustained by a system of privileges and subsidies. The facts are there: I do not think that anyone, in the light of the Pim Report, would dispute them to-day.

It is because of that past history that I ask whether we are going to repeat any of this story. Already a Settlement Officer has been appointed, the Kenya Government have expressed their agreement with the policy of the Commission which sat on settlement in 1939, and a promise has been given by the Kenya Government that public money will be available for new schemes of European settlement. That policy should be weighed most carefully before it is embarked upon. I know that many advantages have come to East Africa, with the disabilities to the Africans, as a result of white settlement, although in West Africa and Uganda the native peoples have managed to get on pretty well without it. But the purpose of the Labour Party is to see in East Africa a common civilisation of black and white in common citizenship, working and living side by side. The maintenance or extension of European settlement should not be by privilege to the Europeans, or to the prejudice of African development. We are opposed to preferential treatment being given to the Europeans. We fear that the effect of further European settlement may be not only to perpetuate but to increase the difficulties of government, and to strengthen the present dominant influence and direction in government. Let us remember that the social structure of Kenya is essentially that of a plural society. Within the Imperial framework two or more races pursue their separate courses, with little social or economic interaction, the Government from time to time adjusting the relationships when one or the other race may tend to become restless. I suggest that the war has already demonstrated that that type of society is both inadequate and weak. There is in Kenya a civilisation of a dominant race, supported by cheap labour, and that kind of society is completely intolerable. We are afraid that any marked increase of European settlement will aggravate the present position.

Another reason why we are apprehensive is that, looking ahead, we see that there may be gathering for us difficulties because of the increasing population of the Africans and the existence already of an acute land hunger. You may improve African husbandry. You may adopt social changes and go all out for schemes of development, but sooner or later, because of the limited areas in which the African may live, you may be obliged to seek outlets in order that land may be available so that his livelihood can be pursued. It may be inevitable and desirable that many of these good neglected lands in the white highlands shall be used by selected Africans along the lines of some resettlement scheme. The present policy in the European highlands of a stratified society, in which blacks can be put to labour for the Europeans on the European lands, means the continued existence of a dominant people, and that seems to us to be an indefensible policy altogether. In the light of the past we do not think that arrangements that are made should be for the exclusive enjoyment of Europeans only. I have said that in the past there has been far too much discrimination. We have tended to create what has been called a privileged class, and in order to do so we have distorted the economy of Kenya, and we do not want that policy to be pursued. We want the building up in Kenya of a civilisation in which both races can play their part.

These then are our fears and, perhaps, suspicions. It makes it difficult for us to feel happy about the new plans, and we hope that the Colonial Secretary will pause before he sanctions this new development.

There are only two points that I now would like to make. The first is that we are not satisfied with the progress of representation of Africans on central and regional bodies. During this war the European people have increased their influence in government to a very considerable degree. They have got on to boards which exercised important executive powers. Their influence is felt in every corner of government. It is true that the Secretary of State is trying hard to build up some form of African representation in native councils and trying to create some central body from which representatives of African interest could be drawn for service on the central authorities, but already in most of the guiding and directing bodies, although Europeans are a very small minority in the population, European representation is over-weighted. I would seriously urge that in the executive councils as well as on the legislative council more places should be assigned for the Africans, and if representation cannot be secured directly, at least it should be obtained indirectly. There are large numbers of men who are coming forward among the Africans themselves who can be trained in government and who are ready to take their place. It seems to us imperative that more should be done in this direction.

The second point is that already there is a rising demand for the amalgamation of the Governments of Uganda, Tanganyika and Kenya. The old cry of closer union is being heard, and I need not quote the bodies and conferences which have been making this demand. All of us recognise that there must be, in certain of the common services of the three territories, a closer coming together. There must be co-operation and association, but in our judgment it would be fatal if we gave ear to any suggestion that the three Governments should be amalgamated into one. I therefore hope that the Government will resist these proposals and will make a statement to that effect.

I have tried to put across some of the things that are worrying my party at the present time, and I hope that we can be reassured by the Secretary of State that there is little ground for these apprehensions or at least that there will be no departure in the way of new European settlement without the fullest consideration of all the factors that are involved by such a development.

Sir Leonard Lyle (Bournemouth)

We always listen to the hon. Member for Shipley (Mr. Creech Jones) with great interest, because he has made a great study of these Colonial questions, and lately he has been showing a very sturdy Imperialism, which we very much welcome, and which, we hope, will stand us in good stead in the future. The hon. Member has spoken about certain difficulties which his party feel with regard to the future, and he has given various instances in dealing with local affairs in such of our Colonies and Mandated Territories as Kenya. But towards the end of his speech he made a statement that his party was very much against a closer union, and therefore I gather that he is rather in favour of maintaining the Mandate at present existing. I want to oppose that view, because it is a fatal view for the prosperity of any of our Colonies, East African or otherwise. Mandates should be of the shortest possible duration. We all want development. We want improvement of conditions, amenities, labour and of industry. We want to see them all thriving, and that is the common ground which we all possess. If you want that to develop you have to have capital and development, and you cannot have development unless you have capital in some form or other. You are not going to get any long-term capital invested if you have a Mandate which means uncertainty as to future conditions. You are only going to get short-term capital, which is not desirable, because it is likely to be used for exploitation and quick returns. It is not the sort of thing that I should imagine hon. Friends opposite would desire themselves. We want to see a closer union with this country and the East African countries, when you are likely to get a definite settlement of problems and where capital can be directed. With regard to our West Indian Colonies, for instance, we hear with monotonous regularity as to the need for the improvement of living conditions, standards of life for the peoples in the Colonies, but we also hear periodically of the same kind of contribution from the Exchequer, from some development fund. In my opinion, far too much attention has been levelled at what is called welfare and far too little to what I call development. I believe that it is only by developing our existing industries and by attracting fresh enterprises that we can really hope for an extension and improvement in the condition of the people in the West African Colonies. Most of our Colonies undoubtedly depend for their successful existence on their export trade, and I think it would be extremely foolish for us if we did not recognise that fact.

Now I have the opportunity I want to say a few words on a subject on which I know I shall have the wholehearted support of my hon. Friends opposite, namely, the colour bar. I raise this point because I am in touch with my own people in the West Indies, who tell me that even although we have not heard very much about it over here it is a question which still looms large out there. Only recently there was sent to me a copy of "The Gleaner," a well known newspaper published in Jamaica, referring to this question. If I have any authority—and it is not very much—I wish to say to the people of the West Indies that I do not think that such a thing as a colour bar really exists in this country. We have had, of course, instances which we all deeply deplore, but isolated cases must not be taken as representing the opinions of the people of this country. I would like to utter the warning that when they do occur they give a wonderful handle to our enemies, to all the most extreme agitators and to the people who really want to work in the interests of the enemies of Britain. We want this great Empire of ours to be more united and more strongly held together than ever before when this war ends, because it is only by maintaining and by strengthening our ties of Empire that we can really exist as a great nation. We want to have, as a nation, the love and respect of our children from overseas, whatever their caste, creed or colour. We could never expect to have a united Empire, knit together by love and loyalty, if we had opinions such as are suggested in some quarters, about the colour bar. We cannot expect that state of affairs to come about if we take from our Colonies all they have to give during our time of trial and tribulation and then later tell them that they can rise only so far and no further and that there is such a thing as a colour bar which prevents them from obtaining the fruits of their labour, skill and culture.

We all remember the individual case where that great sportsman, Constantine—a man whom, I am perfectly certain, everybody would have been delighted to have met and welcomed to his home—was treated in a very deplorable way. There was also another case, I believe of a land girl, and I mention these because I think they are the only two cases which have come to our knowledge during this war. In view of the number of coloured people who have come over here, its speaks well for us and for how well everybody has taken to our black kinsmen and accepted them as one of us. I remember that in the last war a cultured and highly educated native from Jamaica, a man of great charm and character, who is now a well known King's Counsel was treated, also in a way that I deeply deplored. But these are isolated but irritating instances. I would like to say that the companies with which I am concerned, and which I represent out there, desire to have adopted a policy of wherever possible offering every opportunity to coloured people who have the ability and the talent to rise to the big positions in the company. That seems to be not only sound business policy but a patriotic and a correct one. I do not want to detain the House any longer, but I thought it would do no harm and it might do a certain amount of good if I, as one who has many interests in the welfare of some of our great Colonies, and as a Member of the British House of Commons, expressed my view on this subject and restated what I believe are the feelings of the vast majority of my colleagues.

Mr. Edmund Harvey (Combined English Universities)

I welcome most warmly the speech which my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth (Sir L. Lyle) has contributed to this Debate, and I hope that his insistence on the importance of the colour bar question will help the Colonial Secretary to make this an occasion for stating on behalf of the Government that there is to be no bar to colour and that administrative posts and legislative posts, when the right time comes, will be open to those who are subjects of the King, whether their colour be white, yellow, black or brown, and that we can all be members of one great fellowship, proud and glad to work together in a sense of community. This Debate will have been worth while if, as a result of it, we can have some such memorable declaration from the Minister.

My hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Mr. Creech Jones), in introducing the Debate, dealt with the question of Kenya, and I want to follow in warm sympathy with what he said and to add one or two points. Summaries of parts of the evidence given before the Food Commission in Kenya have appeared from time to time in the "East African Standard." Anyone who has gone through extracts from it will feel that it is of very great social value, and I hope the Colonial Secretary will take steps to make it more public. It may not be possible to publish all the evidence, but a certain amount at least ought to be made available for wider use, because it affects not just the question of the lamentable food shortage and loss of life which have occurred, but the whole question of agricultural policy and relations in that Colony. There is a very great deal of valuable evidence on the question of the single crop and the future of maize growing. It is too soon to expect the right hon. and gallant Gentleman to announce his decision, but I hope one result may be—this is borne out by evidence from experts as well as from ordinary farmers—that in future an effort will be made to avoid dependence upon a single crop and to encourage a great deal more mixed farming, not only among the European settlers, but also among the Africans. It has undoubtedly been one of the causes of the food shortage and the loss of life which has followed during the last year, and the fluctuations in the price of maize have resulted in a smaller crop being raised at a time when the largest amount was needed. There ought to be some method by which there should be more definite control of the maize crop, and along with that it comes out clearly from the evidence that there is a great need of better farming not only by natives but by Europeans.

I was very pleased to see a despatch from the Governor which my right hon. and gallant Friend has placed in the Library, which shows that the Government are already considering that and looking forward to a considerable expenditure of money from the Development Fund for Agricultural Institutes and for encouraging good farming. That, I hope, will be just as much for the benefit of Africans as of Europeans. It is most encouraging to see in that despatch that a whole series of measures are being taken for the benefit not of one section but of both. I know how sad is the tragic history of the past. Over 32 years ago I began to take up in the House some of these East African questions, and I tried in vain to get justice for one section of Africans, the Masai tribe; who I felt were wronged, who had to give up their Northern Reserve and go to land to which many of them did not want to go. Many Members in the interval of time have taken up these questions and have failed, yet it has not been wholly failure, because we have seen an increasing desire on the part of the Colonial Office to protect the rights of those who cannot speak for themselves and for whom they and we are trustees. We do not want to set one section of the community against another. We wish our fellow countrymen who have settled there well and want them to be true and noble representatives of all that is best in our ideals, but we also wish well to our dark skinned African fellow citizens and we want their welfare too. We cannot undo the past, but we can undo the evil very largely, as we work for the welfare and well-being not of one section but of both alike.

There are one or two suggestions that I want to put as to help that can be given in that way. The hon. Member for Shipley has spoken of the difficulty of the fresh settlement of Europeans because so many African natives are longing for land that they cannot get. Many of the reserves are overcrowded. Surely it would be possible, along with the settlement of the Europeans in the highlands, to get a further settlement of Africans on land that they have not yet got, it may be on land which has been assigned in the past to European lessees or owners, but never used. It should be possible to resume the ownership of land which has been long left unused. In French Equatorial Africa a tax was placed on such land and it resulted in the resumption by the State of a large amount of land of which the owners were not making use. I should like to see an undeveloped land tax, of a very different kind from what has been suggested in our own country, a tax on land which is lying waste and not developed for agriculture. There are people who own thousands of acres and are holding them for speculation in the distant future. They should no longer hold it unless they are going to make use of it. That would make it possible for land to be available for settlement which would not otherwise be available.

I was very glad to see in the Governor's despatch that some preparation is being made for an irrigation scheme in the Tana River Valley. As long ago as 1936 there were some investigations by the Kenya Government as to an irrigation scheme in that valley. It would mean that several thousand square miles of land now dry and derelict would be brought into cultivation and made fertile, and it would be well worth while as a long-term investment to have a considerable capital expenditure in order to make this desert land fertile. It was done not so far away in what was Italian Jubaland. After the cession of Jubaland to Italy, Italian engineers working on a similar desert valley made it possible to grow bananas on what had been desert land. What has been done by Italians could be done by British engineering skill, and it would be of great benefit to Africans and Europeans alike. I hope the Colonial Secretary will be able to carry forward the scheme, the preparation for which is already being made, as we read in the Governor's despatch. In all these things we look to him to show the insight and the spirit of sympathy that be has shown in so many cases already. He is himself the representative of the spirit of partnership that we want to see not only in Kenya, but pervading the whole Empire.

The Secretary of State for the Colonies (Colonel Oliver Stanley)

I am always glad when we have an opportunity to discuss in this House matters of Colonial policy. It does good here, and it does good in the Colonies themselves to know that we are interested in their problems and that we are taking them seriously. I rather regret, however, that the hon. Gentleman should have chosen just this time of the Parliamentary Session to inaugurate this Debate, because it may give a quite wrong impression to the people who live in the lands we have been discussing. To them the matters which we have been discussing in a rather hurried and necessarily perfunctory manner are matters of life and death, and they may feel that we are not really giving to them the attention they deserve. I am sure that the whole House would like to make it plain to them that all we are doing to-day is getting from the Minister an interim reply to certain questions which hon. Members wanted urgently to raise, and that there is no thought that in a Debate of this length and character we are fully and finally discharging our responsibilities for and discussion of the tremendous problems which arise in these areas.

Captain Cunningham-Reid (St. Marylebone)

What other occasion would the hon. Gentleman have had to bring up this matter?

Colonel Stanley

I really think that the hon. Member for Shipley (Mr. Creech Jones), whom I know very well and who I know can stand up very well for himself, is quite capable, if I have wronged him, of doing it without the hon. and gallant Gentleman's intervention. There are many occasions, of course, during the Session. We had no fewer than four occasions last year when we had full Debates. All I am saying is that I do not want East Africa to get the impression that this is Parliament's final word on the great problems in that area.

Mr. Creech Jones

I may say in self-defence that the opportunities of raising Colonial matters in the House are limited and that we have urged that there should be some additional machinery Whereby some of these problems could receive greater attention. I tried very hard by tabling an Amendment to the King's Speech to get an opportunity of raising some of these problems which have been opened out to-day.

Colonel Stanley

The hon. Member, who, has slightly turned his coat owing to unexpected championship, agreed with me before the Debate that it was important we should let East Africa know that we were not regarding this as the full occasion for a Debate on their problems. I am sorry for this digression, which I am afraid can only have the result of worsening the prospects of the hon. and gallant Gentleman's subject which he is waiting to raise.

I should like to start by paying one word of tribute, after a very hurried visit which I paid to East Africa in the last last month or two, to the part which East Africa is playing in the war effort. We are already fully conscious here of the part played by West Africa. Lord Swinton came back here and spoke to Members of both Houses; he held a Press conference, and he did a broadcast which brought home to the people of this country the part which has been played by West Africa. I would like to emphasise that a no less important part is being played by all communities alike in East Africa. I am not allowed for obvious reasons to give figures of those who have joined the Fighting Forces, but I can say that the contributions which East African territories have made have been no less—in fact, in proportion to their number they have been rather greater—than have been made by West Africa. In the field of production, just as West Africa is producing for us vital commodities in which we were left in extremely short supply by the collapse of the Far East, so East Africa is producing another range of commodities without which we should find it almost impossible to continue the war effort, certainly at anything like its present tempo. I am sure we should all like to show that we do recognise the part they are playing and the debt of gratitude that we owe to them all.

One of my regrets that this discussion should have taken place on this occasion and therefore last for so short a time is the fact that it should be in such a small House and In such a cursory Debate and that the hon. Member for the English Universities (Mr. E. Harvey) used two or three of the sentences that he did in his speech. He has certainly taken a lively interest in East Africa for many years, but he said he was not intervening in this Debate in order to set one section against another, that he wished the white settlers well, wished the white settlers to be a happy and settled community worthy of the country from which they had come, and equally wished well to the Africans and to their prosperity and their future, but that what he wanted was the welfare of both and the growth in East Africa of a spirit of accord. I felt that the whole of our political purpose in East Africa could not have been better or more sincerely put than it was in those few sentences, and I wish that it could go out to East Africa as the feelings not only of one back bencher, however distinguished, but of the Government and the House of Commons as a whole.

Let me, in that spirit, turn to answer some of the individual questions that have been asked. The hon. Member for Shipley made a reference to forced labour. I read with some interest the Debate in which my right hon. Friend the Member for Stockton-on-Tees (Mr. Harold Macmillan) took part when compulsory labour was instituted soon, after the fall of Singapore, at a time to East Africa of very deadly danger. He said it was a thing nobody liked. That is equally true to-day. During the short time I was in East Africa, this was perhaps the one subject above all others upon which I wanted to make some inquiry, and I found that this labour was generally unpopular. The Government disliked it because of its effect upon tribal life; the employer disliked it because he would far prefer to have the volunteer than the conscript and the mixture sometimes of volunteers and conscripts created considerable difficulties; and the bad employer disliked it because compulsory labour means Government regulation of conditions, and that might be disliked by some people. Everybody disliked it; everybody would like to get rid of it. It is only the urgency of the situation that makes it impossible to do so.

I went out with the idea of satisfying myself as to whether there were any alternative ways in which without compulsory labour we could ensure the continued production at the rate one requires of commodities essential for the continuance of the war. I came back quite convinced that there was no alternative to this system, however much I might dislike it. It is not, of course, on a big scale. In Kenya out of 286,000 people engaged in work 8,500 are conscripts. In Tanganyika the similar figures are 258,000 and 5,200. What I have arranged as a result of my visit is to emphasise the fact that this is work for war purposes and war purposes alone, that applications for the extension of this system to particular commodities shall be made to me and that it shall be for me, after consultation with the appropriate Ministers here as to the need for those particular commodities to give the sanction. The hon. Member is not quite right in what he said about it, for in addition to sisal I have authorised pyrethrum and rubber and also essential foodstuffs which do not however include either coffee or tea. Any further extension of that list can only be made on application to me.

The next point raised by the hon. Member concerned African development. I do not think I can add anything to the despatch from the Governor which has been put in the Library. I think anybody who reads it will realise that there is a really determined attempt on the part of the Kenya Government to be as ready as they can with extensive plans for development as soon as conditions make it possible to start. This particular report covers in some detail soil erosion, agricultural education, the Tana River plan and African housing, to which I have already given approval; but the hon. Member will realise that this is only the first part and that the Governor in the despatch makes it plain that we can expect in the near future a further despatch dealing with education and health. I think, therefore, we can feel that the Kenya Government have made very satisfactory progress already with their post-war plans and that those plans are conceived upon a broad and generous scale. The hon. Member referred to the importance of plans such as these vis-à-vis the utilisation of the returning soldier. He is absolutely correct. Not only in East but in West Africa an enormous number of Africans who have joined the Army will have received a certain amount of mechanical and trade education which they had not got before, and many of them will be unwilling to return to the agricultural community from which they came. It is essential therefore that in our development plans and in our encouragement of economic secondary industries we should have in mind the possibility of finding some use for the industrial skill which those people have acquired. The hon. Member talked of small industries, and we have already made a certain amount of progress there. I had a visit from the official in Kenya who is looking after industrial development of that kind. He had many talks with various Departments here, and as a result we were able to give him opportunities to acquire machinery for staffing quite a number of small industries designed at the moment for supplying needs which arise in war-time but which will undoubtedly have an economic future in peace-time as well.

I think the point with which I ought to deal more fully in the hon. Member's speech is that of the European settlement. He asked about a new development. I must assure him that there is, at the moment, no new development in regard to white settlement in Kenya. There was a report of a Settlement Committee which sat some time in the year 1938. It was accepted by my predecessor in office in the year 1939. The proposals of that Commission were on a most modest scale. They proposed to settle a few hundreds over a period of ten years by Government-aided purchase of land, by long-term loans and by the provision of farm training. That report was accepted at the time, and its acceptance has been reaffirmed recently by the Kenya Government, but it is obvious that its details will have to be reconsidered in the light of existing circumstances to see what under new world conditions is likely to be an economic settlement. It is for that purpose, I understand, that a Settlement Section has been set up to investigate the matter. It is true that legislation is proposed in this connection. The object of the legislation is the compulsory acquisition of land for resettlement. As to the case to which the hon. Member called attention, is he going to suggest that it is not a good thing to acquire that land compulsorily for the purpose of resettlement? The second purpose of the legislation is to control land dealing in the white highlands to prevent speculation. Obviously whenever there is the danger of an inflationary period one of the first things you have to guard against is speculation in land which will so artificially inflate its value that economic settlement becomes impossible.

Those are the objects of this legislation, which has certainly, so far as its objects are concerned, my full support. Full details are not available. A Bill was published for criticism in the last Session, and a new Bill will be introduced this Session which will be based on the criticisms, suggestions and advice put forward about the old Bill. One more word about what the hon. Member said on this point. He said that the party to which he belongs was, and always had been, opposed to the white highland policy. I do not think he can quite get away with that. He must remember the White Paper of 1930 issued by Lord Passfield, in which he said: Having no desire to go back on the decision come to by Lord Elgin in 1908, confirmed by the White Paper in 1923, with regard to the restriction of agricultural land sales in the so-called highlands of Kenya to persons of European descent, His Majesty's Government"—

Mr. Creech Jones

I should like to point out that the Labour Party has never endorsed that policy. The Labour Party has always opposed the segregation of an area of country in Kenya for the purposes of the exclusive use of European settlers. That has been the consistent policy ever since this party has made any pronouncements in regard to Kenya at all.

Colonel Stanley

I beg the hon. Member's pardon. I ought to draw the distinction between being opposed to it, which he was, and accepting it during their term of office, which was the policy supported by him when Lord Passfield was Colonial Secretary.

Going on to another question, I was anxious to see proper African representation, but I was anxious to see that representation made effective. It is not effective if you simply put Africans on committees to discuss matters which they may be quite incapable at the moment of discussing effectively. I am hoping that this machinery to which I have referred before, which is dealing with a rather simpler set of reforms than may have to be dealt with in the central Legislature, will provide good opportunity for Africans to develop their capacity for higher functions and that it will lead to their being able to participate in more complicated affairs in the central Legislature. Until we are certain they can participate with effect we should be very unwise to throw away the safeguards at present afforded to them by the special indirect representation of the Europeans representing natives' interests.

On the question of amalgamation and closer union, I can only say that that is a question which we have to approach on its merits, if possible without any partiality, to try and get in this area of the world the greatest economic advantages we can for efficient co-operation and at the same time respect as far as we can the desires and wishes of the people of these areas. It is a great problem, and to attempt to deal with it in a minute or two would be quite wrong. I have already referred to some words used by the hon. Member for the English Universities. I would certainly consider the suggestion he made about an undeveloped land tax. I do not know what the position is in regard to that, but I agree entirely with the development of mixed farming and above all with the encouragement of better farming. He will realise that one of the proposals in the report is directed to the question of better agricultural education.

The hon. Member for Bournemouth (Sir L. Lyle) referred to the difficult question of the colour bar. I do not think the hon. Member for the English Universities need have said that he hoped that following everybody else the Secretary for the Colonies might say he was against it. I have said before, and I say in no unmeasured terms, that I am against it. As far as this country is concerned, the colour bar is a social question. It is a question in which it is very difficult for Governments or Legislatures to interfere. It is difficult by laws to prevent a certain number of ill-mannered and ignorant people allowing ill manners and ignorance to get the better of them. All of us deplored the particular case to which the hon. Gentleman referred. As far as any economic disadvantages are imposed by race or colour, I think the hon. Gentleman has done something better than merely make speeches about it. He has set an example by promising that in his very widespread business opportunities for advancement are to be given quite irrespective of race or colour. All of us are pleased to hear that. It is a declaration which I know will be welcomed in the West Indies, and it shows a spirit which I believe is shared by many in big industry to-day.

I hope that we shall have an opportunity later in the Session to deal on a wider scale with the great subjects which have been sketched out to-day. All of us must realise the difficult problems existing in the area to which this Debate has particularly referred. We all must realise the necessity for a considered solution, and all of us hope that we shall find solutions for these problems and that this part of Africa with its white, its Indian and its African population will remain in contented, prosperous and happy association with this country.

Mr. Ammon (Camberwell, North)

Might I ask the right hon. and gallant Gentleman to enlighten me as to what pyrethrum means?

Colonel Stanley

It is seen in herbaceous borders. It is a flower like a daisy, and its use is that from it is made a powder which is deadly to the malarial mosquito. In the Far East it is one of the most vital things we need.