HC Deb 04 February 1942 vol 377 cc1223-4

Motion made, and Question Proposed, That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1942, for the cost of the war services of the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries.

Captain Crookshank

It would save considerable trouble and unnecessary repetition if I explained at this stage that the next six Votes are purely technical Votes, required owing to our accountancy procedure. They have little or nothing to do with the Departments concerned. Ever since 1894 the Annual Appropriation Acts have set specific limits to the Appropriations-in-Aid for each of the Votes. These limits are the amount shown in each of the Estimates under the headings of Appropriations-in-Aid. Of course, in the case of these War Services and Unclassified Services, where we deal in the region of £100 and £10 token Votes, it is quite clear, unless we came and asked for further permission to use Appropriations-in-Aid, that the Department concerned would have to surrender to the Exchequer all sums over £100 and £10. As I say, a £10 Vote is only to be taken as a token Vote. The result would be most inconvenient, since it would mean that you would be unnecessarily swelling both the Exchequer and Budget accounts, because you would have to pour in the large sums which, under present circumstances, are received as Appropriations-in-Aid.

The more sensible thing to do is for the Department concerned to use what it gets from various sources under these Services as its own Appropriations-in-Aid, and use them as a set-off for its own expenditure. These figures cannot be estimated early in the year, because one does not know the region they will reach. Hon. Members can see that the Appropriations differ very much—one is for £10, one for £3,500,000 and one for £7,000,000. It is to deal with that purely technical point that I rise to make this explanation to the Committee. I am sure Ministers of the Departments concerned will be prepared to answer any questions, but we must bear in mind that these matters are confidential because they deal with war supplies. I think with that explanation I may have put at rest any anxieties hon. Members may have that there is something strange in this procedure.

Mr. Rhys Davies

We all realise, following the explanation, that this is a matter dealing with the technicalities of accountancy. There are, however, one or two of these Unclassified Votes, and one in particular, to which I would like to refer. Perhaps I would be in Order in asking the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health to reply to my questions which affect her Department.

The Deputy-Chairman

I shall have to put each Vote separately. I would point out that no questions can be asked except those relating to accountancy.

Mr. Davies

May I ask a question in relation to accountancy affecting the Ministry of Health Vote?

The Deputy-Chairman

Yes, when that Vote comes before us.

Question put, and agreed to.

Resolved, That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £10, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1942, for the cost of the war services of the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries.