HC Deb 23 October 1941 vol 374 cc1880-2
11. Mr. Stokes

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether the exemption of members of the Armed Forces from compulsory fire-watching orders applies to officers engaged in administrative duties in the Admiralty, War Office and Air Ministry; how many such officers at present take any part in fire-watching either over the buildings in which they are employed or elsewhere; and what steps he proposes to take to ensure their taking a more adequate share of responsibility in this matter?

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Herbert Morrison)

Under the Civil Defence Duties (Compulsory Enrolment) Order all serving members of His Majesty's Forces, including those to whom my hon. Friend refers, are exempt from registration with the local authority in whose area they reside, and accordingly any fire prevention duties they may there perform would be voluntary. Fire prevention arrangements in Government premises are made under Treasury instructions analogous to the provisions of the Fire Prevention (Business Premises) Order. Under these instructions Heads of Departments are empowered to apply compulsion to civilian staffs but not to members of His Majesty's Forces, though their voluntary assistance is welcomed. As regards the last two parts of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the Service Ministers concerned.

Mr. Stokes

Is it not a fact that quite a number of the Service officers in these Departments are really nothing more than civilians in uniform, and is it fair to the other Civil Servants that they should not be required to take their share in fire watching?

Mr. Morrison

I think there is point in what my hon. Friend says, but, of course, these individuals may be administrative officers this week, and soldiers proper, so to speak, next week. This is a matter which should be dealt with by the Service Ministers concerned, who, I have no doubt, will see these Questions and Answers.

Mr. Lipson

Are civilians who are employed in Service offices registered for fire watching?

Mr. Morrison

Civilian employees in Service Departments in Whitehall are in the same position as anybody else.

19. Mr. Sorensen

asked the Home Secretary how many cases of prosecution for failure to do fire watching have taken place to date; how many of these resulted in discharge, fine or imprisonment, respectively; and whether he will take action to enact that, for a first offence, the option of a fine instead of imprisonment will be granted, particularly with a view to avoiding unnecessary hardship and humiliation to elderly respectable citizens who have never before been involved in criminal proceedings?

Mr. Morrison

Statistics are not available regarding the number of cases in which proceedings have been instituted in fire prevention cases, and in view of the large number of authorities entitled to institute such proceedings I do not consider that the value of such figures would justify the labour involved in their collection. As regards the second part of the Question, arrangements have now been made to co-ordinate the policy to be adopted in this matter by the authorities concerned. My hon. Friend may rest assured that trifling irregularities will be dealt with by other measures and that prosecutions will only be instituted in serious cases.

Mr. Sorensen

Is my right hon. Friend not aware that there are instances of elderly people who have not quite appreciated the Regulations, or for temperamental reasons have not complied with them and, for a first offence, have been sentenced to a term of imprisonment? Is that desirable?

Mr. Morrison

It all depends on the merits of the case. There has been plenty of publicity, and I hope that hon. Members will help me to get fire watchers as well as give reasons why people should not do fire watching. My difficulty is to find enough. I have given instructions that every consideration shall be given in such cases as my hon. Friend refers to, and that frivolous prosecutions shall not take place.

Mr. Sorensen

My Question has nothing to do with getting fire watchers, which we are all willing to try to do, but deals with a specific grievance.

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