HC Deb 02 October 1941 vol 374 cc714-9
63. Mr. G. Strauss

asked the Home Secretary whether he can make a statement in regard to the escape of the three interned men in the Isle of Man, and the subsequent disturbances that took place in the internment camp?

70. Sir Adam Maitland

asked the Home Secretary whether he has any statement to make to the House in regard to the recent disturbances in Peel Camp, Isle of Man?

Mr. H. Morrison

I will, with Mr. Speaker's permission, make a statement at the end of Questions in answer to these Questions.

Later—

Mr. H. Morrison

During the night of 17th September, three of the persons detained in pursuance of Defence Regulation 18B in Peveril Camp in the Isle of Man effected their escape by tunnelling from the basement of one of the houses under the barbed wire fence. The men were recaptured by a naval patrol which found them in an open fishing boat off the coast of the island and brought back to the camp at about 6.30 p.m. on the evening of Saturday, 20th September. They were lodged in the detention cells and are being prosecuted before the Manx courts on charges connected with the theft of the boat. When these charges have been disposed of I propose to transfer them to a prison on the mainland, where they will be detained under closer supervision.

The recapture of these men and the manner in which they were dealt with on their return to the camp was the immediate occasion of the disturbance. It was not possible to conduct the prisoners to the detention cells without exposing them to the view of other persons detained in the camp, and a number of these persons made a demonstration of welcome. The officer-in-charge of the camp refused an application of some of the inmates that a meal should be sent to them from the camp. These men had been given a meal on the patrol boat, but this was not known to the men in the camp, and a story was spread that the three men were being starved. These circumstances appear to have caused a feeling of resentment, and after dark this found expression in a considerable amount of shouting and stone-throwing at buildings in the vicinity of the camp. The extent of the disorder has been exaggerated in many of the published accounts. No assault was directed against any individual, and although damage was caused to windows, only two persons were very slightly injured. The Commandant of the internment camps on the island was summoned and on his arrival he sent for the camp leader, warned him of the seriousness of what had occurred and made it plain that the disorder must cease immediately and complete silence be maintained for at least an hour before he would listen to any representations which the. men might wish to make through their leaders. Complete quiet was at once restored, and after the lapse of an hour and a quarter he met the group leaders, who told him that the demonstration was due to resentment aroused by the treatment accorded to the recaptured men. The Commandant explained that the men in question were, in fact, being given a meal, and sent the group leaders back to the camp with another warning against any further disorder. The rest of the night passed without incident.

On the following day my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State, who happened to be on an official visit to the island, when making a round of the camp was followed by a group of the inmates, who made abusive remarks, though no violence was offered to him. Since that date there has been no disorder in the camp, and there is no foundation whatever for published statements alleging further riots and drunken brawls. Nevertheless, I cannot but take a serious view of the lack of good order and discipline evidenced by these occurrences. Persons detained under Defence Regulation I8B are detained for preventive and not for punitive purposes, and it has been the aim of the administration, in accordance with the wishes expressed from more than one quarter of the House, to make the conditions of detention as little irksome as possible. But it is an essential condition of the greater freedom of movement and association in an internment camp that the persons detained should themselves undertake a large measure of responsibility for the maintenance of good order and discipline. This principle of self-government is that on which the administration of all our internment camps is based.

The recent disorders were limited to a section of the camp population, and while, owing to the darkness, it has not been possible to identify the ringleaders with certainty, I have already ordered the removal to a prison of a number of persons likely to cause trouble in the camp, and I shall not hesitate to use this measure freely. Indeed, if any class of persons abuse the privileges I have indicated, the alternative must be confinement in prison establishments. The immediate necessity is to restore a sense of discipline in the camp and to take effective steps to prevent any repetition of these disorders. Hitherto the inmates have been subject to the control of military personnel, who are not by their experience and training accustomed to deal with disorders by unruly mobs. I have accordingly decided to reinforce the military personnel by a detachment of Metropolitan police, who have already arrived in the island and will be available to assist in the maintenance of good order and discipline in this camp. In addition, I have carefully considered the question whether any of the privileges enjoyed by the inmates of the camp should be withdrawn because of the misbehaviour of those of them who took part in the disorder. As I have explained, it has not been possible to identify these persons with certainty, and there are objections to the imposition of a collective punishment on a whole community for the misbehaviour of only a section. Nevertheless, the disorder cannot pass unnoticed, and I have directed that the issue of permits for visits by relatives and friends to this camp shall be suspended for a period of four weeks from the date of the disorder and that for a similar period certain amenities, such as visits to the cinema and concerts, shall be withdrawn.

These measures will, I hope, be effective in securing the maintenance of that standard of discipline and good order which is essential. I can, I am sure, rely on the House to support me in any further measures of a more drastic character which I may consider necessary.

Mr. Thorne

Has my right hon. Friend any information as to the kind of implements which the men used for the purpose of digging the tunnel and as to where they got them from?

Mr. Morrison

I cannot be certain, but I think that they may be garden tools which they would have been using in the course of their work.

Major-General Sir Alfred Knox

Are not a large proportion of the people interned at this camp Irish Republicans, and should they not be segregated from the others?

Mr. Morrison

There are some Irish Republicans. I cannot give the number on the spot, but even Irish Republicans are of varying degrees of temper and temperament. We did exercise discrimination as to who should be there and who should be elsewhere, and we will take that into account in considering the persons to be transferred to prison.

Sir W. Davison

Has my right hon. Friend any information as to the statement in the Press this morning that prior to these riots many thousands of bottles of beer were sent to the camp and that they could get as much beer as they pleased?

Mr. Morrison

They do not get as much beer as they please; I do not think anybody does nowadays. I am bound to say that the published accounts have in many cases been very exaggerated and sometimes a little inventive. Therefore, the House should allow for a little romanticism in these stories.

Mr. Ellis Smith

In view of the seriousness of these reports, can my right hon. Friend take any steps to deprecate or to prevent in future exaggerated statements of this character appearing in the Press?

Mr. Morrison

I am not sure that that is a matter in which I can very well plead security as a reason for interfering with the Press. These are little difficulties which we have to put up with and explain as we go along, and I do not think I can do more than I have done.

Mr. Garro Jones

My right hon. Friend spoke of the prosecution of those who escaped, for the offence of stealing a boat; is there not also an offence of attempting to escape, and will they be put on trial for that?

Mr. Morrison

That can be considered, but as I have power to transfer them to prison under the Defence Regulations, I doubt whether it is worth while to proceed with a prosecution

Mr. A. Bevan

Does my right hon. Friend realise that the House will support him in any steps he thinks necessary to prevent a recurrence of these disorders? As he has said that he will not inflict punishment on those people who were not concerned in the disorders, does that not contradict the further statement that he has imposed disabilities on other members of the camp? Will he see that those persons who appear to be very fond of manual labour are given a little work to do?

Mr. Morrison

I am anxious to do that, and I am very glad to know that I shall have the support of my hon. Friend. I think that he has rather confused punishment with the temporary withdrawal of certain privileges which were given them. While I adhere to the doctrine that I do not want to punish a community for what some have done, nevertheless I think I am entitled to say to that community that it must make an effort to maintain its collective conduct if it is to enjoy privileges which I have, very largely at the wish of the House, granted to them.

Mr. Bevan

As the right hon. Gentleman has said that these persons have not in fact broken the law and are therefore not to be punished, and has said also that he has withdrawn from all members of the camp certain privileges, has he not in fact inflicted punishment on innocent persons? Is not that a contradiction?

Mr. Morrison

Not at all. My hon. Friend has made the contradiction himself, because he is confusing punishment with the withdrawal of privileges which I was under no obligation to grant but which I did grant on grounds of amenity and humanity. If any establishment collectively misbehaves itself, and I cannot sort out which is which, I have a right, while I ought not to punish indiscriminately, to mark my displeasure by the withdrawal temporarily of certain privileges.

Mr. Gallacher

In view of the tendentious Press statements, will not the right hon. Gentleman consider lifting the ban on the "Daily Worker"?