RATING (WAR DAMAGE) (SCOTLAND) BILL. (Hansard, 27 May 1941)

§ The Joint Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Westwood)
I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time."
I hope that the Bill will commend itself in all parts of the House. It is a Bill with only one operative Clause, the object of which is to give local authorities in Scotland a discretionary power to remit rates on property which has been wholly or to a substantial extent rendered uninhabitable by enemy action. At present local authorities in Scotland can in general remit rates only on the ground of poverty or inability to pay. Unless, therefore, an owner or occupier is without resources, he continues to be liable for rates until the new Valuation Roll is made up, even though the property has been destroyed or its value wholly or to a large extent has disappeared as a result of bombing.
This, I submit, is clearly inequitable. In England and Wales the law is different from what it is in Scotland. In England and Wales the Minister of Health has circularised rating authorities advising that where as a result of enemy action property has been rendered uninhabitable for a period of more than a week an appropriate remission of rates might properly be given. It also appears that in England it is open to the occupier of a property which, although not made wholly uninhabitable, has suffered substantial damage, to secure a reduction in valuation, which becomes retrospective to the date on which the damage occurred. Action on similar lines in Scotland under the existing rating valuation law would be incompetent and the Bill which I am now moving will enable the position in Scotland to be brought substantially into line with the existing position in England and Wales.

§ Mr. Buchanan (Glasgow, Gorbals)
Will it date back?

§ Mr. Westwood
Yes. The Bill will empower rating authorities to grant such relief as they think just and equitable in 1811 all cases where lands and heritages have become wholly or substantially incapable of beneficial occupation as the result of war damage. There may be cases where parts of premises have been damaged but where the remainder is still capable of beneficial occupation, and we have felt it right to make provision for those cases. As a corollary to this provision for the partially-destroyed building the Bill further provides that the rating authority, when deciding what relief will be given, shall have regard to the extent to which the lands and heritages have become incapable of beneficial occupation as well as to the period during which they are incapable. We have also felt it right to provide that this relief may be given retrospectively. This will enable local authorities to grant relief for damage which has occurred before the Bill becomes law. Provision has accordingly been included to make it clear that relief may be given by way of repayment of rates that have already been paid as well as by the reduction of assessments. From consultations which have been held with representatives of the three Local Authority Associations in Scotland, I have reason to believe that the Bill will be generally acceptable to local authorities in Scotland, and I beg to move that it be now read a Second time.

§ Mr. Mathers (Linlithgow)
I am sure that the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland may be certain that his hope in respect of this Bill that it will be generally approved by the House is one that will be fully realised. We have here an indication of the fact that Scotland has a separate legal system and that that is being carefully looked after by those who are in control of Scottish affairs in this House. The Minister has indicated that this Bill can have retrospective effect. I feel inclined to say on that point that I hope it will only have retrospective effect, that it will refer only to past war damage and that no more damage may occur in Scotland. Perhaps that is too much to hope for during the period of the war; but I am certain that what is being provided for here will be generally welcomed and that this Bill will commend itself to every section of the House.

§ Mr. Buchanan
May I raise one point? The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland has explained the Bill very clearly. It is 1812 a short Bill, but its shortness did not in any way affect the clarity of his exposition. The Bill obviously applies to the ordinary tenement house where rent and rates are not payable together. The hon. Gentleman is aware that, in the case of certain houses—I speak from memory—of a rent of about £24 or £25, the rent comes to about £19 19s. The increase of rent raises this sum to about £24. Up to that sum, in the greater part of Scotland, rent is not payable with rates, while over that sum rent and rates are combined. I take it that the local authority have the right to say, in respect of houses over the ordinary figure of £24 or £25, "We will not ask for all the rates which are due, because, during the period in question, your house; was not able to be occupied by you. We therefore remit a portion of the rates." I take it that the amount to be remitted will be entirely for the local authority to decide.
The other point relates to cases where rates are paid with rent and where the house factor, as we call this official in the West of Scotland, is agent for the local authority for the collection of rates. In some cases, the factor collects rates for the local authority and then hands them over to the person. The system is a little complicated, as the hon. Gentleman is aware. Where the tenant is in arrear, the factor or the house agent sues the tenant in court, not merely for the rent owed by that person, but for the rates as well. The Under-Secretary should make sure that the mere collection of rates by the house factor or agent does not prevent the tenant from getting his or her share of the remittance that may be granted by the local authority.
I also want to raise another question. It does not quite come in here, but I would ask the Secretary of State to look at the general subject of rent, as payable in Scotland. A system has grown up to which I have always been strongly opposed, and it is becoming more prevalent, in the West of Scotland particularly, by which rent is paid in advance. The system common in the big cities is that a tenant or occupier of a house pays a quarter's rent in advance. Possibly, on the day after he has paid, the house, which he has not yet occupied, is blown to pieces. The would-be tenant may be killed, yet he has paid that quarter's rent for a house which has ceased to exist. 1813 The whole question of rent payment in Scotland should be taken into account. I understand that the position has been referred to in the courts, and it is a deplorable situation. In Glasgow there is a number of sheriff-substitutes, who administer the small debt courts where these actions are taken. You may have one sheriff stating the law differently from others. In my view the Common Law of Scotland is quite clear—and I believe the best lawyers follow this interpretation —in showing that rent is not payable unless a house is occupiable or is certified by a local authority as capable of being occupied by the tenant. If that is the case, rates ought to be exempt, and I trust that the Under-Secretary will make it clear that the tenant who pays rates with his rent is entitled to at least the same exemption, or at least to exemption from rates during the period when his house may be unfit for occupation by him

§ Mr. Westwood
I have no complaint whatever to make as to the way in which this Bill has been received. My hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Mathers) and my hon. Friend the Member for Gorbals (Mr. Buchanan) have both made it perfectly clear that they are in agreement with the principle of the Bill which I have sought to introduce to-day. First of all, I want to make it clear that it is retrospective in its effect, so that where people have been bombed out the local authority, with its knowledge of the facts, is enabled—and again I want to emphasise the fact that it is an enabling Bill—to deal with the applications on their merits. I am perfectly sure that the local authorities, with their knowledge of our rent and rating system in Scotland, will keep in mind the fact that there are two systems, one in which the tenant pays the rates and the other in which the landlord collects the rates along with the rent from the tenant. In a case of that kind I am sure that where the local authority agrees to grant remission of rates it will not agree that the landlord shall claim not only his own share but the tenant's share in connection with any remissions.
A very important point was raised by the hon. Member for Gorbals in connection with rents, but it would be altogether out of order to deal with rent problems under the Title of this Bill, which is the Rating (War Damage) (Scotland) Bill. Consequently, so far as the Bill is con- 1814 cerned, we can deal only with the problem of the remission of rates. But the points that have been raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Gorbals will be taken into consideration in view of the fact that, when the Bill—the Landlord and Tenant (War Damage) (Amendment) Bill—which has already been considered by the House to-day becomes law, the question of introducing Scottish legislation relating to rent adjustments when property is damaged will be urgently considered so far as the Scottish Office is concerned and so far as the Secretary of State and myself are responsible for introducing that legislation. The points that have been raised in regard to the problems of rent will receive consideration between now and the introduction of that Bill.

§ Mr. Buchanan
In the meantime there is this urgent problem, namely, that a number of people have been refused or have been unable to get the use of a house —quite properly; it is no criticism of those responsible, for such a decision may have been taken because the house is dangerous—but in the meantime those people are being asked to pay rent which they cannot pay, and I would like the Undersecretary to ask those who are entrusted with collecting rents at least to take no action in the courts until the new Bill is introduced and the law made clear on the matter.

§ Mr. Westwood
I shall certainly be prepared to make an appeal on those lines, because it seems a reasonable appeal to make, particularly in view of the fact that legislation is pending for the purpose of dealing with that particular problem. I trust that with these explanations the House will now be prepared to give a Second Reading to this Bill.