HC Deb 20 May 1941 vol 371 cc1480-2

Considered in Committee, pursuant to the Order of the House this Day.

[SIR DENNIS HERBERT IN THE CHAIR.]

CLAUSE I. — (Power to provide by regulations for co-ordination and unification of fire services.)

The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Home Security (Mr. Mabane)

I beg to move, in page 1, to leave out lines 27 and 28, and to insert: under this Act or imposed upon them, otherwise than under this Act, in connection with the fighting of fires or the making of provision for facilitating the fighting thereof. This Amendment is mainly a drafting Amendment, but there is at the same time a little more in it than that. This passage in the Bill refers to a provision which enables the Secretary of State to make Regulations withholding any grant which would otherwise be payable by the Crown to any local authority, if the Secretary of State is satisfied that the local authority has failed to perform its duties under this Measure or otherwise, in connection with fire fighting. It is proposed in this Amendment to avoid a reference to paragraph 1 of the Schedule and to substitute more general language. As the Bill stands, the words: in connection with the matters specified in paragraph 1 of the Schedule to this Act cover all the words in lines 26 and 27, with the result that a failure on the part of a local authority to pay to the Secretary of State a contribution under the Act would not be a failure which would authorise him to withhold grants or to set off the sum due from the local authority against a grant payable to that authority. It is in order to prevent this drafting difficulty that we wish this Amendment to be accepted by the Committee.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand pare of the Bill.

Clause 2. — (Supplemental provisions).

Amendments made:

In page 2, line 9, leave out "sub-sections," and insert "subsection."

After "and," insert "subsection."

In line 29, leave out from "any" to "and," in line 33, and insert:

"member of the London Fire Brigade or of any fire brigade maintained under the Fire Brigades Act, 1938, by a local authority."

In line 35, leave out paragraph (d).

In line 40, leave out "employed," and insert "serving" — [Mr. Mabane.]

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

SCHEDULE.

Mr. Mabane

I beg to move, in page 3, line 33, at the end, to add: so as to require them without their consent to serve in any place where they could not have been required so to serve if this Act had not been passed. The proviso, as printed, is too wide. It would exclude the possibility of transferring regular or part-time A.F.S. firemen to State service. It is desired to preserve the proviso in so far as it safeguards part-time and unpaid personnel from liability to be transferred for service from one area to another, but to enable them to be transferred to State service.

Mr. Lindsay

Does this mean that all members of fire brigades and the A.F.S., and part-time volunteers, will be in the service of the Crown; and that the part-timers only cannot be transferred against their wishes?

Mr. Mabane

That is quite so.

Mr. Mathers

Will they be allowed to give reasons why they should not be transferred away from their homes?

Mr. Mabane

The whole point is that this prevents them from being moved, so there is no need for them to appeal.

Amendment agreed to.

Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Bill reported, with Amendments; as amended, considered; read the Third time, and passed.