§ Rear-Admiral Beamish(by Private Notice) asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what consideration has recently been given to the reorganisation of the fire services and what decision has been reached?
§ The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Herbert Morrison)Yes, Sir. With the threat of war in view the fire service has gone through a process of unceasing and often very rapid development. Last September, when heavy raiding began, the service which confronted the menace had been expanded to many times its normal peace-time size. From the actual test, with its unprecedented and in some respects unpredictable conditions, the regular service and the A.F.S. have emerged with flying colours, and I should like to pay to them a very sincere tribute of admiration for their conspicuous personal courage and skill.
Many lessons have been learned in the hard school of the past eight months' experience. Not all these lessons can be publicly mentioned by myself, nor indeed by hon. Members The schemes for reinforcing heavily raided areas have been widened and developed. The Regional technical staffs and the fire department of the Home Office have been strengthened. Regional and central inspection staffs have carried the lessons of the raids from raided areas to all the other principal target areas. Regional conferences have been held to drive the lessons home. Finally a shortage of man-power will be met by the National Service Act of April last.
Now, with intensified attack, a drastic change of organisation must be made. In spite of all that has been done, or can be done, to develop and improve the emergency fire services, a fundamental difficulty remains and springs from the 1083 fact that the fire service is a local service. There are in England and Wales alone over 1,400 local fire authorities, many of small size and slender resources. The changes of the last eight months, some of which I have enumerated, have nearly all of them been in the direction of building upon this sectional and divided foundation a superstructure with as many as possible of the characteristics of a unified service.
This process has now gone as far as it can go, and that is not far enough. Further progress is not possible with an army divided into so many forces of varying size, the bulk of them very small. We need to be able to use effectively all that we have of skilled direction at the centre and able leadership in the field. Flexibility and great speed in action are essential. On these grounds, the Government has decided to seek from Parliament powers to place the whole fire brigade resources of the country under the general control of the Secretary of State and the Secretary of State for Scotland, with a view to the re-grouping of the resources into larger units for purposes of administration and control, with unity of command over each force, and to constitute mobile fire fighting units for reinforcing purposes or other special duties. This means, of course, that, as a war measure, this service will pass for the time being from local authority control, and for the time being the Exchequer will bear the cost of the service less a contribution from local funds which remains to be fixed, and which will be on the basis of 75 per cent. of the cost of the regular fire brigade service in a standard year.
Local authorities, generally speaking, have done their work well, and I am sure that the House will recognise the devotion and efficiency they have brought to their tremendous task. It is not a reflection on them that the task itself has now grown altogether beyond local resources. I have explained the plan in a general way to the representatives of the Associations of local authorities in England and Wales and the London County Council and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland has done so in the case of the Scottish authorities. We shall remain in consultation with them and will depend largely upon their experience and good will in effecting the 1084 changes and operating the new services. We shall, of course, in shaping the new organisation and dispositions, have regard to the circumstances of each area.
Some of the necessary preliminary measures can, I am advised, be carried out under existing powers, but for other purposes legislation will be necessary. It is the Government's intention to submit to Parliament as soon as practicable a Bill to confer any necessary additional powers on the Secretaries of State and to ask the House to pass the Bill through all its stages as an emergency measure.
§ Rear-Admiral BeamishIs my right hon. Friend aware that his statement will give satisfaction, and that it has brought to an end very well-meant but mediaeval methods, and will he do his utmost to press forward the necessary legislation?
§ Mr. MorrisonI am much obliged to the hon. and gallant Gentleman. I can assure him that we shall move with all practicable speed, but it will be appreciated that these are big changes and will take a little time fully to complete. No time will, however, be lost.
§ Mr. R. C MorrisonIn view of the fact that the success of fire fighting is largely dependent upon the water resources of the country, are any steps to be taken in the scheme outlined by the Home Secretary to see that the water resources of the country are fully utilised?
§ Mr. H. MorrisonThat is a matter which is not lost sight of, and it will be necessary, I think, as part of this organisation, to strengthen the Regional organisation as far as water is concerned. On the other hand, I am sure my hon. Friend will appreciate that the fire brigades have contacts with all sorts of services, and we cannot, as a sort of by-product of this Bill to nationalise fire brigades, use it as a means of nationalising everything else.
§ Sir Francis FremantleWill care be taken in this nationalisation scheme to retain, as largely as possible, the keen services of the localities, the local authorities and the people concerned?
§ Mr. MorrisonI am very anxious to have at my disposal the experience and knowledge, and the good will and cooperation, of the local authorities, and to that end I propose to set up a consultative 1085 body between us and the local authorities by means of which there can be specific contact with them.
§ Mr. ThorneDoes it make any difference when the raids are on whether the water in the Thames is low?
§ Mr. MorrisonI think I had better not answer that question.
§ Mr. MathersWill this new scheme take away the responsibility of, for example, the Minister of Transport for fire fighting on the railways and the Admiralty for fire fighting at the dockyards?
§ Mr. MorrisonNo, Sir.