HC Deb 06 March 1941 vol 369 cc995-8
11. Mr. Hamilton Kerr

asked the Home Secretary whether he proposes to take any action with regard to the pay of fire watchers?

Mr. H. Morrison

I am not in a position to add to the reply which I gave to my hon. Friend on 20th February.

Mr. Kerr

Does my right hon. Friend intend to take further action in the matter?

Mr. Morrison

I am not in a position to do so at the moment, but consultations are proceeding, and this aspect of the matter is being watched.

Mr. Kerr

Can my right hon. Friend indicate some date when he will be able to give a decision on the subject?

Mr. Morrison

I will let the hon. Member know.

Sir I. Albery

Does my right hon. Friend know that advertisements recently appeared in the Press offering services at £1 per night?

Mr. Morrison

I have seen those advertisements, and I have indicated to the House that these excessive payments are a form of profiteering and are objectionable. I am anxious to do all that I can about this matter. It is a matter in which more than one Ministry might be involved.

Mr. Ellis Smith

(by Private Notice) asked the Home Secretary what progress is being made with fire-prevention measures in residential areas and at business premises, and whether any particular difficulties have been experienced?

Mr. Morrison

Under Regulation 27B it is the responsibility of the local authorities, where the Regulation is applied, to arrange for the enrolment and organisation of fire bomb fighters in their areas elsewhere than on business premises. The Compulsory Enrolment Order gives them power to enrol men compulsorily for this purpose if enough volunteers do not come forward. It was hoped that in most areas voluntary recruitment would meet requirements, and sample figures which I have obtained show generally that there has been a splendid response. For example, in the London Civil Defence Region the numbers increased from about 200,000 at the end of December to just over 700,000 in the middle of February. In 43 towns selected at random from all over the country the numbers increased in the same period from about 190,000 to about 430,000. I am grateful to this great body of citizens who have answered my call to take part in this vital national service, and I am sure that the House will share my gratitude. In some areas compulsory enrolment is reported to be needed, and steps are being taken accordingly.

Business premises are governed by a separate Order—the Fire Prevention (Business Premises) Order. It is not yet practicable to give a clear picture here because of the diversity and number of premises concerned. The information so far received by the appropriate authorities shows that, as a whole, satisfactory progress has been made. A number of cases have, however, come to light in which there have been misunderstandings of the effect of the Order or the Order has been wrongly operated. I should, therefore, take this opportunity of explaining that the Business Premises Order does of itself impose an obligation to give service at the place of work. This is vital national service in the true sense, and is not service in the interest of any individual occupier or owner. The Order provides specifically that before a scheme is framed there must be consultation between the occupier and representatives of the workers. This means real and effective consultation. Further, the Order provides for equality of service for all, the management as well as the men.

It will be appreciated that with the intensification of incendiary attacks it was necessary to take further powers to strengthen the existing arrangements as a matter of great urgency, and there was not, there-lore, an opportunity for the full preliminary discussions which would otherwise have been desirable before the Business Premises Order was made. Arrangements have been made for my right hon. Friends the Lord President of the Council, the Minister of Labour and National Service, and the Secretary of State for Scotland, and me, to confer with representatives of the Trades Union Congress and of the employers' organisations, and I am sure that this will help to secure the removal of such misapprehensions as exist on the points which I have mentioned, and will also assist on other important matters, such as facilities for refreshment and for sleeping provision for those members of the party who are not actually on watch. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland will also undertake the appropriate consultations in Scotland.

Sir I. Albery

With reference to many of the smaller businesses, in response to his urgent appeal for fire fighters, is the Minister aware that the scheme can be carried out only by employés doing extra paid service, and that in many cases these firms will not be able to afford to continue such a procedure?

Mr. Morrison

I am aware that there are difficulties in the case of smaller firms.

We are seeking, by promoting co-operation between the small firms, to solve the problem, and if it cannot be solved that way, we shall try to provide supplementary aid from the local authorities.

Commander Sir Archibald Southby

With reference to the question of remuneration, will the Minister take steps to see that the remuneration for fire watching is not greatly in excess of the remuneration paid to the full-time members of the Auxiliary Fire Service?

Mr. Morrison

I have already indicated to the House that I am not out of sympathy with that point. I do not like profiteering, from whatever quarter it may come. It is a difficult matter to deal with, but my hon. and gallant Friend may rest assured that we shall continue to keep the matter in view.

Mr. Mander

Will the right hon. Gentleman make it clear that the directors of companies are expected to do their full share?

Mr. Morrison

I have already answered that question.

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