WELFARE OF PERSONNEL.

HC Deb 05 March 1941 vol 369 cc965-81

Mr. Lathan (Sheffield, Park)

I beg to move, to leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, and to add instead thereof: this House, recognising the arduous conditions of service in seagoing ships and in remote bases of the Royal Navy and taking note of the additional facilities to be provided for those desirous of entering upon a naval career through Dartmouth College, is of opinion that every endeavour should be made to promote the health and welfare of the officers and men concerned. I desire to take the opportunity, which consideration of these Estimates provides, of drawing attention to the question of the welfare of the personnel. I wish that a larger number of my fellow Members were sufficiently interested in that important question and that they could have displayed that interest by their presence here. I would like it to be understood at the outset that the Amendment which appears under my name on the Paper has not been put down in any spirit of carping criticism. There is no sense of grievance or complaint behind it. There is, indeed, no undue concern. It must not be regarded as a symptom of dissatisfaction. It arises from a desire, which I believe is shared by probably the overwhelming majority of people in this country, that, as the Amendment states, there should be full recognition of the arduous conditions of service in seagoing ships and in remote bases. and that every endeavour should be made to promote the health and welfare of the officers and men concerned. My right hon. Friend the First Lord of the Admiralty has, with justifiable pride, told the House of the truly magnified 1 part which the officers and men have been and are still playing in the protection and the maintenance of our lives and liberties. Stirring and encouraging as his story has been, we are conscious of the fact that it is necessarily limited by surrounding circumstances and that the conditions of warfare prevent him, as indeed he indicated, from saying some things in connection with the situation. Obviously, he cannot speak of many things, but he may be sure that so far as the great mass of the people are concerned there is no need for any special stimulant to induce either admiration for or a sense of deep indebtedness to the officers and men of the Navy for the great services which they are rendering to the country. On their courage and resource our existence to-day depends. Let us, therefore, not forget to discharge or be tardy in discharging our obligations to them. One of the best ways of contributing to their welfare and maintaining their morale is to take such action as will relieve their minds of undue anxiety about those who are dependent upon them. On that aspect of the case I will take leave at a later stage to make some further comment.

I have spoken about the officers and men, and I suppose that most of us, in thinking of the Navy, will have men in mind, but we must remember that to-day there are Jills as well as Jacks in the Service. We must keep in mind the Women's Royal Naval Service, which in many directions is performing very useful work. Although, so far as I am informed, the women are not called upon to face peril afloat, they are by no means free from the hazards of war. There was a grim reminder of that fact in the casualty list issued by the Admiralty a few days ago, which contained the names of 10 of these gallant women who lost their lives at the post of duty and the names of a number of others who were wounded in similar circumstances. I hope that we may hear from the hon. and gallant Gentleman who is to reply that there is no less consideration in the matter of the welfare of the Jill "Wren" than there is for the Jack Tar.

It may perhaps be convenient for all concerned in this Debate if an attempt is made to define what we have in mind when we speak of welfare. I accordingly select the following, which, while not necessarily an exclusive list, will yet, I think, be found to be sufficiently comprehensive. The subjects which I have included under the heading of "Welfare" will be: Living conditions, food, consideration for dependants and relatives, leave, recreation, education and additional clothing and comforts. As regards the provision of comfortable living conditions, I anticipate—at least I hope that there will be no difficulty whatever in giving the necessary assurances as far as the men-of-war are concerned. Even with the increase in manning that war conditions impose, I imagine that no special difficulty arises there. But are adequate facilities provided for such essentials as the provision of dry clothing for men who face the stormy seas? A cosy cabin on a liner is uncomfortable enough to most people in an Atlantic gale. Our thoughts go out to the men who face the furies with the added dangers arising from war con- ditions—the lurking mine and the cruel U-boat beneath the surface.

I have anticipated assurances as to comfortable living conditions on men-of-war, but what of the small ships—the veritable nerves of the Navy, as I have heard them described, whose invaluable contribution to the maintenance of British supremacy at sea we all so gladly acknowledge? I refer to the dangerous duty craft, as I think they are sometimes described—the anti-submarine trawlers, the minesweepers, the motor torpedo boats and what I believe are the latest of our naval scourges, the corvettes. I recognise, of course, that on these small vessels it is physically impossible to provide the comforts and amenities of the big ships, but everything possible should be done and every opportunity should be seized to effect improvement that experience has shown to be necessary to compensate the men on those boats because of their added discomforts. I believe I am correct in saying that, so far as the corvettes are concerned, already steps have been taken in that direction, and I am sure that I am speaking for the men employed on them when I say that that is fully appreciated.

These improvements should be embodied in the new boats which, we understand, are now being turned out so rapidly by the yards. From all I have heard, it would be richly deserved by those who are serving on the vessels. A friend of mine who has had experience of them told me that the discomforts were such that Icelandic fishermen were actually sick on them, and I think they are acknowledged by their colleagues in the Service to be tough fellows who man those ships. Yet —and this is a disturbing note—I understand that the men who cheerfully put up with all these discomforts are compensated with what is described as hard-lying money only to the extent of one-half of the amount which could be provided. The Admiralty would, I think, be well advised to reward the endurance of the corvette crews by a full measure of hard-lying money.

Now as to food. The House, I am sure, would value information as to the arrangements which are now in operation. I have never heard even a suggestion of insufficiency, but is there variety? Variety, they say, is the spice of life, and it certainly supplies an additional and needed spice for the men who suffer the monotony of long cruises and service on men-of-war. What about the extras which individuals may purchase according to their taste? I am told that each mess provides its own food. Does that mean that the men have some voice in selecting or determining the menus which are provided? And here again the question of small craft arises. Is everything being done to ensure the regular provision of hot meals as far as possible for the men who are serving on the small craft? The difficulties arising from limitations of space are, of course, sufficiently obvious, but cooking in these days, by reason of the utilisation of electrically generated heat, has been lifted to a science. The men aboard these ships are entitled to all that science can provide.

That raises another question in relation to these small ships. Is there adequate cooperation between the various comforts committees for the Fleet? Two months ago there were, I am told, small ships which Santa Claus entirely forgot. I understand that one of them, an antisubmarine trawler which had played a noble part in the rescue of men from the troopship "Lancastria," was at sea on Christmas Day, and there was only one Christmas pudding for the whole of the men on the vessel. I am told that it was the one provided by the captain's wife, and that when it was shared out it amounted to just one spoonful per man. I mention this as I am sure the men concerned would desire it to be mentioned, not by way of reproach, but in order to express the hope that steps will be taken to provide against a recurrence of such circumstances, and I am confident that a request of that kind will not fall on deaf ears.

Now as to the position in regard to the relatives and dependants of the men. I believe I shall meet with general agreement in saying that nothing, not even good food and comfortable conditions for the man himself, contributes more towards his true welfare and to the maintenance of morale than the knowledge that his family or his dependants have enough to live on, that assistance will be forthcoming if they are in difficulties, and that if serious trouble develops means of communication will be provided for them. We shall all be familiar with what is described as the standard allowance for wives, children and dependants. The State has recognised that frequently some supplement to this is necessary. I am told that the War Grants Advisory Committee, whose function it is to sanction financial assistance where necessary, admirable in many respects as it is, is not always as advisory as it might be. Should there not be some welfare section to which the wife, the mother or other dependant of a sailor could turn for sympathetic guidance when trouble arises? The man is afloat, away from contact, and no sense of undue loneliness should be allowed to afflict his kith and kin. I have heard of and readily pay tribute to the excellent work in this field of usefulness which is done by the Naval Wives and Families Association. But such activities should not be left to voluntary agencies alone.

As to the question of leave, this undoubtedly involves difficulty in the case of naval men, at any rate so far as prescribed scales are concerned. Operational requirements are bound to govern allowances, and in this the senior Service men are frequently at a disadvantage as compared with their contemporaries in the Army and the Air Force. This should mean—I hope and believe that we shall hear that it does mean—that special consideration will be given wherever leave, long or short, is possible. It should also mean that generous travelling facilities in the shape of free warrants are also provided. It may be, of course, that active service imposes restrictions which may make a journey impossible for the man himself. In such circumstances, would it not be possible to arrange for a man's wife or mother to visit him? Recently, 1 have seen very favourable comment on the hostels for wives which have been established at certain military garrisons. Could something along those lines be done for our sailormen?

This question of leave raises another question in regard to the crews of small ships. After their period at sea—a corvette is, I believe, at sea for 10 or 12 days—the men return dirty and unshaven because of the limited facilities provided for them on their craft. There ought to be baths and dressing rooms provided by the authorities; the men ought not to be dependent on Service clubs or benevolent institutions for such requirements. I will not take up the time of the House by commenting at length upon the desira- bility of the generous provision of recreational and educational facilities, or upon the need for providing additional clothing for special tasks, or upon the provision of extra comforts. Much can be done today to relieve monotony that a few years ago was quite impossible—the provision of radio sets, cinemas, theatrical entertainments, games and books, in the selection of which the men should have a voice, and also the provision of canteens ashore. I am on common ground in claiming that everything that is practicable should be done in this direction. The moral value of it will be incalculable.

Finally, may I express the hope that the reference to the Dartmouth scholarships scheme is not regarded as inappropriate in a Motion dealing with the welfare of personnel? I have no intention of enlarging upon that aspect. I simply desire to suggest that the additional facilities will inevitably affect favourably both the welfare and the morale of all ranks in the Service. It is fitting that, in the midst of the greatest war for democracy, so substantial a step towards the democratisation of the Navy should be taken. The House has already shown its pleasure at this step. This Motion provides another vehicle of conveying approval, and for assuring the Admiralty that, in addition to the satisfaction of the citizens at large, there are many ratings and ex-ratings who look forward to the operation and the possible expansion of the scheme, because it will enable their sons to enjoy opportunities which circumstances denied to them. That is a substantial contribution to welfare and to the maintenance of morale. I referred at the outset to our indebtedness to all those who serve. The measure of that indebtedness is beyond assessment. We can at least determine that nothing within reason shall be left undone to ensure the comfort and the wellbeing of all upon whose vigilance and valour so much that is vital to our existence as a free people to-day depends.

Mr. Benjamin Smith (Rotherhithe)

I beg to second the Amendment.

I do not wish to traverse all the many points that my hon. Friend has raised, such as living, food, and dependants; but there are two aspects of the Amendment with which I should like to deal. One must recognise that the Navy to-day is operating under war conditions. Under such conditions a good many of the amenities that are enjoyed in peace-time, such as furnishings and things inboard, more or less have gone by the board. Nobody would say that in the active service of to-day the food situation is in any way worsened, except by the limitations in the amount of food which are due to the system of rationing now applicable. The questions that I would like to raise are, education and promotion. A boy joining the Service at 15½—as I had the good fortune to do nearly 50 years ago—has to give some indication of his ability as a scholar. He spends his first six months in the Service in improving his education, in learning the first stages of seamanship and the elemental things that. are necessary in the Service; and his second six months in being taught the elementary side of gunnery, rifle practice, and so on. A boy of 15½ who joins to-day has 2½ years to serve before he becomes a man. If he were properly handled there is no reason why in that time he should not qualify for any position in t5e Service, in the commissioned ranks as well. It may be said that some of the lads have had the opportunity of coming through; and have, in fact, come through. But no one with the interests of the Navy at heart would say, I think, that the number of commissions granted from the lower deck since the committee on the subject was first established is anything like the number that might have been granted had there been good will behind the scheme for the promotion of these lads.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member cannot go into that subject. It is more suitable for the Motion that I do now leave the Chair. It goes beyond the scope of the speech of the hon. Member who moved the Amendment.

Mr. Smith

The Amendment refers to those desirous of entering upon a naval career through Dartmouth College.

Mr. Speaker

I am not sure that that is in Order. It is outside the scope of the speech of the hon. Member who moved the Amendment. He dealt with the welfare of personnel.

Mr. Smith

With respect, Sir, is not the advancement of boys to commissioned rank a question of welfare within the Service? I will, of course, be guided by you; but it seems to me to be a part of the Amendment.

Mr. Speaker

I do not think it is. The hon. Member, in moving the Amendment, made it clear that he was dealing with the general welfare of personnel.

Mr. Smith

I bow to your Ruling; but the words are in the Amendment, and it seems to me that after my hon. Friend had dealt with one portion of the Amendment, I might deal with the other.

Mr. Speaker

I noticed that the hon. Member who moved the Amendment did not dwell on that part of it.

Mr. Austin Hopkinson (Mossley)

In support of your Ruling, Sir, I might point out that the Amendment says: and taking note of the additional facilities to be provided for those desirous of entering upon a naval career through Dartmouth College. The hon. Member was not referring to those but to the ordinary promotions from the lower deck.

Mr. Speaker

Either of those subjects would be out of Order.

Mr. Smith

I am quite sure that you need no assistance, Sir, from anybody in this House in advising a Member on his position with regard to an Amendment. But the Amendment has been moved, and I must wait until the time comes when I can deal with this subject.

With regard to men in small ships, I have had occasion, before my right hon. Friend became the First Lord, to raise with the Admiralty the question of men in paddle steamers, for instance, who were not getting hard-lying money. I am glad to say that as a result of my communication that has been put right. But when hard-lying money is paid it should be a fixed amount. It should not be within the competence of anybody in the Admiralty to say whether one-half, one-third or the whole amount should be paid. If there is an element of hard-lying to be considered at all, the whole amount should be paid. I will not weary the House; I will I await my opportunity another time. But under war conditions everything should be done for the men afloat and ashore, to make their arduous job as easy and comfortable as it can be made.

I am sure there is no Member in this House who does not look with pride upon the personnel of the Navy, and who does not feel that that personnel is a very great element in the protection of these islands. These men and boys are willing, and I use the term "boys" advisedly, for in every naval action we have had in this war I notice that some boy has come out in the Honours List. I ask, in supporting my hon. Friend, that anything that can be done to promote the welfare of these men and boys should be done, whether it is by way of educational facilities or amenities, especially when they are ashore. It should not be through the Agnes Weston Home, but something which should be the responsibility of the Navy when the men are ashore equal to their responsibility when the men are afloat. The work that these men are doing and the pride that we have in that work should be reflected in giving the greatest possible amenities to every element that goes to make up this wonderful service.

The Civil Lord of the Admiralty (Captain Austin Hudson)

I think that we ought to congratulate the hon. Member who moved the Amendment upon the subject which he has chosen and also upon the speech which he made in support of his Amendment. In these times of unrestricted warfare, with all its consequent unpleasantness, the House will agree that the welfare of our sailors is of all the more importance. As the Mover of the Amendment said, welfare in the Navy is sometimes difficult because of the conditions of service in which men have to live. The task of looking after welfare has, however, been simplified in the Admiralty by the fact that we have had a Department in existence for many years under the supervision of the Second Sea Lord, and this Department, on war breaking out, had only to be expanded. I hope in the very short time that I shall address the House to be able to touch upon the various aspects of welfare which were dealt with both by the Mover and by the Seconder. I think, in view of what you said, Mr. Speaker, I had better say little of the Dartmouth part of the Amendment, but I will say this, as it is referred to in the Amendment, that the Board of Admiralty are very gratified with the general welcome which has been given to the scheme. A great deal, of course, depends upon how the scheme is operated, and I can assure the House that the Board of Admiralty intend to operate it in the most sympathetic manner possible.

The hon. Member who moved the Amendment mentioned the fact that, in war-time, we have not only to consider Jack Tar, but also Jill Wren, and he wanted an assurance that our Wrens were considered in the welfare organisation as well as the male portion of the naval personnel. I can assure him that that is so. We do our very best to provide accommodation suitable for the Wrens and to make them as comfortable as we can, sometimes in rather difficult circumstances. I am sometimes, as Civil Lord, rather appalled by the amount of money for which I am asked in order to provide the accommodation which we think necessary for the feminine portion of the Naval personnel. As the Mover said, it is comparatively easy to provide a reasonable standard of comfort and amenity in a big battleship afloat, or, on the other hand, in a big camp on land, but it is not so easy to cater for the needs of those brave men who go to sea in small craft, such as minesweepers, submarines and other vessels of that kind, or for those who are stationed in small numbers at isolated bases or ports. I think that that was the chief point made in the speech of the Seconder of the Amendment, and I entirely agree with him. We have been doing our best to make life more comfortable for the men in these smaller craft by erecting canteens and baths and providing recreational facilities ashore where these small vessels are based. Incidentally, in doing that we are greatly indebted to the seamen's societies and philanthropic bodies for their prompt and ready assistance in this work. I can assure the Seconder that we do not entirely rely on these bodies. We try to build ourselves, and particularly to provide baths and recreational facilities, but these other bodies have helped in many ways, and the important thing is their readiness to help at once, in order not to waste time.

The Mover dealt with the difficult subject of hot meals. All I can tell him on that is that we try to provide two hot meals a day whenever possible, both in the big craft and the small craft, but it is not always possible in certain types of craft like the motor torpedo boats, because of the way in which they move in the sea. In these cases, we have to make what arrangements we can. In this respect we are now instituting special training for cooks for the patrol service, because the very difficult problem with which they have to deal is not quite the same as that of the rest of the Navy, and we want, if possible, to get a better standard of cooking, in difficult circumstances, for those unfortunate men who have to go out in the small patrol craft.

Mr. Lathan

The boats, I take it, provide facilities for cooking?

Captain Hudson

They all do, but sometimes they cannot be used because the sea is so rough and the boats are so small. I presume that the new training for the cooks of the patrol craft will have to be of a gymnastic nature in order that they can cook in these extremely difficult circumstances. As I was about to say, drying-rooms are provided wherever possible in the bigger ships, and in the smaller ones very often arrangements have been improvised.

Another point raised as regards the small craft is that of hard-lying money. The present position is that hard-lying money depends on the condition of the vessel. If it is a vessel suddenly taken into commission and thoroughly unsuitable, then, I believe, 100 percent. hard-lying money is given. I am told that for the corvettes mentioned by the Mover half the full amount of hard-lying money is given, and that is the present procedure. I have taken note of what the Mover and Seconder have said as regards hard-lying money and it will no doubt be considered. All the big ships with complements of 500 and over are supplied with cinema equipment and excellent films are provided by the Royal Naval Film Corporation. Thanks to the willing co-operation of the cinema trade there is an organisation for changing them. We have also tried to erect cinemas on land in those out-of-the-way places which have to be frequented by the Navy, where there are few amenities, if any. I would like to describe some of these places but perhaps I had better not, in case they receive unwelcome attention from above.

The "Ensa" concerts given in these places are very much appreciated and I would like to thank those who have organised them as well as those who have taken part in them. Ships with complements of 100 or over are supplied with radio gramophones and loud speakers and smaller vessels are given portable sets, either by the Nuffield Trust or the Royal Naval War Amenities Fund. I would like to say a word or two about this Fund because it has done, and is doing, extremely good work. In the main, it depends on a very generous public and it exists to provide those amenities which are not a fair charge on the State but which materially add to the well-being of the personnel. Some of the things it does are to run a library scheme — very important, particularly to smaller ships—to give grants-in-aid for erecting clubs and restaurants by philanthropic bodies, for use by officers and men, and to provide theatrical gear and musical instruments and indoor games. The Fund has provided billiard tables and domi-noes—

Mr. Benjamin Smith

Is the Admiralty itself responsible for supplying technical books to these libraries? What means does the studious man have of getting access to technical books?

Captain Hudson

I think I am right in saying that the Admiralty does supply such books. The Amenities Fund also helps with regard to outdoor recreation, by providing footballs and other games equipment and it might interest the House to know that recently the fund sent skis and skates to one isolated base, of which many Members will know the name. It is really doing most excellent work. I want to say a word, too, about the voluntary organisations outside the Admiralty which have provided, and are providing, gifts in kind in large numbers. They include warm garments, of which 1,000,000 have been given since the war started; cigarettes, 37,000,000 of which have been given in one year; and books and other comforts. Fair distribution is arranged by collaboration with the Admiralty and carried out by means of port amenities liaison officers who are installed at most of the naval bases in the home waters. These officers are in close: contact with the appropriate Admiralty Department. Many of these gifts have come and are coming in gratifying numbers from the Dominions, Crown Colonies, the United States of America, and South America. I have refrained from thanking by name the generous people who have contributed to these voluntary organisations because I am afraid that, were I to start to do so, I should omit one or more of them and thereby hurt their feelings. We are, however, deeply grateful to every one of them.

With regard to accommodation ashore, the Navy, just like the Army, has to have a large number of shore establishments. As the Navy expands, so is more and more housing required on shore, both for the preliminary training of what are called the "hostilities only "men—the militia of the Navy—and for Naval ratings waiting to be drafted to the new ships which are now coming forward, as my right hon. Friend the First Lord said, in such considerable numbers. When the Military Service Act was passed by the House, we built two big camps for the "hostilities only" trainees, and we are rather proud of those two camps. They were built in peace-time, and I think they are as comfortable and convenient as any camp could be; but since then the Navy has expanded enormously, and besides building, we have had to adapt establishments of different kinds. This has made it difficult to keep up to the standard of comfort which we would desire. Last winter the heating problem was a very great difficulty. The war broke out in September, and the cold weather was upon us soon afterwards. However, this winter I think we have succeeded in heating all of our shore establishments, though in some of them the standard of comfort is not as high as we would wish it to be.

Another problem with which we have had to deal, and with which the other Services have had to deal, has been that of night bombing. We want, if possible, to give our trainees a proper night's rest, and, unfortunately, the Navy are at certain places in the country which are very vulnerable to air attack. We have endeavoured, in order to give them a proper night's rest, to fix bunks in shelters in these shore establishments in vulnerable areas. Very many of the shelters have already been so fitted, and huts in the camps which are now being built are being made blast and splinter proof in the sleeping portion, so that the men can stay there during the night. This is important, because it allows the training to go on without being impeded by the men having perpetually disturbed nights.

I want now to say a word or two on the less material side of welfare. Leave is given when and where possible, though in the Navy it is sometimes a rather difficult problem, owing to the peculiar nature of the sailor's calling. There is a difficulty in meeting the suggestion of the hon. Member for the Park Division of Sheffield (Mr. Lathan), that we should arrange for the wife to meet her husband, in that we cannot allow relatives to know where a ship is coming in. That is the difficulty. Therefore, we cannot let the wife know so that she could be there to meet her husband. Leave is given wherever possible. We give now four free passes per annum to men in seagoing ships, whereas at the beginning of the war we gave two. As far as possible, we endeavour to look after the man's family by marriage, children's and dependants' allowances. As hon. Members know, these are very much the same for all three Services. There is a Family Welfare Section at each of the three home ports with which commanding officers can communicate direct. I think that answers the point made by the hon. Member for the Park Division of Sheffield.

Mr. Lathan

Have the wives access to these Family Welfare Sections?

Captain Hudson

I think I am right in saying that they can go there too. If a man in a seagoing ship is in trouble, he can go to his commanding officer, and the commanding officer can then signal to the Family Welfare Section at the port to look after the man's family.

Mr. Benjamin Smith

Either the Minister knows or he does not know. It is no use saying "He thinks." Can the wife or the mother of a man who is serving have access to any of these three depots, and so directly reflect her troubles to whoever is responsible? If not, just imagine the position. A commissioned man has to get the information from his family to his ship, and then from his ship to his commanding officer, and from the commanding officer to the depot, and from the depot back to the woman. The whole thing is ridiculous. Surely there ought to be direct access in these cases.

Captain Hudson

I have been able to ascertain that the women concerned have direct access to these officers at the port in the Family Welfare Section. I now wish to draw the attention of the House to the Royal Naval Benevolent Trust, an organisation which is run by the lower deck for the lower deck, and which is actively supported by the Admiralty. This organisation assists in cases of difficulty, sickness and distress. Its members are those men who join the Royal Navy or Royal Marines, either on continuous service or for hostilities only, and it gives relief both during service and after. Therefore it has many calls made upon it. The income of the Royal Naval Benevolent Trust is derived in three ways. It has certain accumulated funds on which it receives interest, but the far larger source of income is the money contributed by the men themselves. It is also supported by donations from the public. I should like to say here that the First Lord will always be pleased to receive any contributions to assist in the excellent work of the lower deck society. It is doing an enormous amount of good work, and people who feel grateful for services rendered by the lower deck may perhaps like to show their gratitude in some tangible form by making donations.

I should now like to say a word on casualties. When casualties unfortunately occur, the Board of Admiralty endeavour to give information known to them at the earliest possible moment after instruction is received by the Admiralty. I hope that people with relatives serving at sea will take note of this. For security reasons, and also because of congestion in the Signal Service, it is often impossible to allow "quite safe" messages to be sent out after an action, although we know from experience that large numbers of men wish to communicate with their relatives who may feel anxious about them. I hope that relatives will take note of this and will remember that "No news is good news." By our Parliamentary Procedure I believe that Mr. Speaker cannot leave the Chair until the Amendment has been disposed of, and that that can only be done in two ways—by withdrawing it or by a direct negative. As I am certain that no one in this House wishes to vote against the Amendment which has been so admirably worded, I hope my hon. Friend will withdraw it in order that the general Debate may proceed.

Mr. Lathan

Having regard to the assurances given, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair," put, and agreed to.

Supply accordingly considered in Committee.

[SIR DENNIS HERBERT in the chair.]