HC Deb 23 January 1941 vol 368 cc287-91
26. Mr. Rhys Davies

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that the Regional Civil Defence Commissioner in Manchester has issued instructions to air-raid precautions controllers not to provide Members of Parliament, even for their private use, with any information about air-raid damage except in their own constituencies, though such Members may be ratepayers or householders and have vital and personal interests in constituencies outside their own; and whether this is done on his instructions?

Mr. H. Morrison

I assume that my hon. Friend is referring to instructions issued by the Regional Commissioner to implement the arrangement recently made, whereby hon. Members may obtain general information about air-raid damage in their own constituencies. This arrangement was described in the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for West Birmingham (Mr. Higgs) on 7th November last. I do not think that it would be reasonable, or in accordance with the wishes of the House, for Members to be placed in a privileged position as regards information about damage which may be of interest to them in their private capacity.

Mr. Davies

Is it not a very vital principle that Members of Parliament should be entitled to know of the death and devastation happening throughout the country during this war, and is it not possible for a person like myself, living in Manchester, to have information about the city where I live and where I am a ratepayer?

Mr. Morrison

I should not have thought there would be difficulty in the hon. Gentleman getting any information from the city of Manchester. I quite agree that there is a point of principle involved, but I think it is this: While I have a duty to provide and facilitate information to Members as to what is happening in their constituencies, I do not think that Members generally would claim privileges outside.

Mr. Davies

Mr. Speaker, you are the guardian of the rights and privileges of Members of Parliament. May I ask you whether it is not a violation of them in this democratic country that a Member cannot get to know what is happening in his own country and among his own people?

Mr. Speaker

There is no point of Privilege arising.

35. Mr. White

asked the Home Secretary what steps he proposes to take to make the experience of heavily-raided areas, and the lessons to be derived there-from, available to civic authorities generally?

Mr. Morrison

Arrangements have been in existence for some time to ensure that the lessons of air raids are collected and disseminated among those concerned; and the necessary information about the recent heavy raids has been made available through these channels.

Mr. Mander

Will my right hon. Friend make known to the public that some of these incendiary bombs are explosive; and ought not the public to be properly protected against them?

Mr. Morrison

I really wish hon. Members would restrain themselves about questions. It is not desirable that these matters should be discussed in the House. We have taken appropriate steps privately, and not in the House of Commons, to see that the proper information is available. We must be judges of what it is wise to publish.

Mr. Mander

At the same time, I want to put it to my right hon. Friend that the public as a whole ought to have information on the matter.

42. Mr. Ellis Smith

asked the Home Secretary whether the Regional Commissioner attended the special meeting of the Manchester City Council held on Wednesday, 8th January, or whether a representative attended; whether steps have been taken to carry out any recommendations made in a report by the Regional Commissioner on the experiences in the Manchester area; and whether hon. Members interested can be provided with or see a copy of the report?

Mr. Morrison

The answer to the first part of the Question is: "No, Sir." As regards the second part of the Question, I have received a number of reports from the Regional Commissioner regarding the recent heavy raids, and the lessons drawn from them are being translated into action as speedily as possible. In reply to the last part of the Question, communications between Regional Commissioners and myself are confidential in character, and I regret that I do not see my way to adopt the course proposed.

Mr. Smith

After the experience which the people of this district had, would it not have been wise for the Regional Commissioner to have attended the special meeting that was called and to have considered these experiences? As the people at the city's council meeting represented all stages of life in this area, should it not have been the duty of the Regional Commissioner to have attended and heard the democratic representatives' views of that experience? With regard to the report that has been made—

Mr. Speaker rose

—

Mr. Smith

This was a terrible experience in this area, Mr. Speaker, and the people are wanting a reply to these questions. It is for that reason that I am asking a longer supplementary question than I would otherwise have asked.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member should have put down two questions.

Mr. Kenneth Lindsay

In view of the fact, according to the published report, that all the mistakes which were made in London with regard to rest centres and which were subsequently corrected were made in this area, would the Minister say who is responsible? Is it the responsibility of the Regional Commissioner, the local authority or the Ministry of Health?

Mr. Morrison

The responsibility, as far as the National Government are concerned, is the responsibility of the Ministry of Health. The immediate responsibility locally is that of the local authority. The liaison between the two would presumably be the senior regional officer.

Mr. E. Smith

Seeing that some of the firemen were machine-gunned, has the Regional Commissioner made a report on that fact, and, if so, is the right hon. Gentleman going to consult the Secretary of State for Air in order to prevent a repetition of that sort of occurrence?

Mr. Morrison

I could not say without notice whether that particular point was considered, but I will look into it.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that the lessons of these heavy raids have really been brought home to the local authorities in areas which have not yet been heavily attacked and where there is far too much complacency?

Mr. Morrison

Yes, Sir. I also hope that hon. Members will play their part in these areas. I can assure the House that the Government have taken the most elaborate trouble to pass on all the lessons that arise out of these raids.

Mr. E. Smith

And the Regional Commissioners?

Mr. Morrison

And the Regional Commissioners. I regret these manifestations of prejudice. It is wrong. We have taken great trouble.

Mr. Smith

Why did not the Regional Commissioner attend the meeting?

Mr. Morrison

The question is whether the Regional Commissioner is better occupied in attending these meetings or getting on with his work. He can read the reports in the newspapers. We have taken elaborate trouble to pass these lessons on, and we are continuing to impress them upon local authorities. I hope hon. Members will also pursue their responsibilites and "ginger up," so to speak, any local authorities which are backward.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Would the right hon. Gentleman perhaps reconsider what information can usefully be given to hon. Members to enable them to carry out the duties which he suggests?

Mr. Morrison

The information is largely strategical in character. It must in its nature be private and secret, except to those concerned with operational instructions. I have under consideration means whereby I hope there may be more frequent and regular consultation between Members of Parliament and the regional authorities. It is already applied in certain regions of the country.

44. Mr. E. Smith

asked the Home Secretary whether he will issue a White Paper indicating the result of the survey that has been made into the preparations made by local authorities to deal with the effects of air raids or send a report to the hon. Members dealing with the area they represent; what the survey shows; and what action has been taken since the survey was made?

Mr. Morrison

There is a continuous survey of these matters, and instructions are issued to Regional Commissioners and local authorities when necessary. The recent intensive air attacks have raised a number of points on which instructions have been issued. It would not be appropriate to make a public statement on these matters, but if hon. Members wish to raise any questions affecting their constituencies, I shall be glad to give them any information I can.