HC Deb 05 September 1940 vol 365 cc9-11
14. Mr. Kirkwood

asked the Minister of Health whether he will consult with the Ministry of Information with a view to making special inquiries in selected districts of Great Britain with regard to the examinations which aged people have to undergo before the Assistance Board Appeal Tribunals when applying for supplementary old age pensions, in order to test the public feeling which has been aroused throughout the country about the hardships suffered by these old people and the ordeals they have to undergo when applying for more money to keep body and soul together?

Mr. M. MacDonald

More than 1,000,000 persons have received supplementary pensions, and I cannot agree that applicants have to suffer hardships or ordeals in the examination of their claims. I do not think therefore that there is a need for the special inquiries which the hon. Member suggests.

Mr. Quibell

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in some instances the officers making the inquiries ask the applicants to produce even their laundry bills, and also their rates bills and their rent book, that in many cases they ask the amount of wages earned by the son-in-law, and that if they refuse the information the supplementary pension is refused? It is a scandal.

Mr. MacDonald

Parliament has decided that a certain investigation should be made. The only question that arises is whether these inquiries have been carried out properly and impartially. If hon. Members will bring to my attention any cases where harshness has been used or where improper inquiries have been made, I will look into them.

Mr. Quibell

There are thousands of them.

Mr. Buchanan

While admitting that Parliament decided upon the investigation, is not the Minister prepared, after months of its operation, to have an inquiry to see whether the intention of Parliament is being carried out in the proper spirit? Will he reconsider his decision and have an inquiry made?

Mr. MacDonald

The authorised inquiry is being made. Many hon. Members have sent me cases from their constituents, and having looked into all those, I am not satisfied that the number involved is so great that a general inquiry is required. If hon. Members have particulars of other cases and will bring them to my notice, I will look into them.

Mr. Buchanan

Is the Minister aware that the method of doing this is not to overburden any Cabinet Minister but to take up these cases locally? Will he not reconsider the matter and set up a neutral body to re-examine the position, as there is intense feeling in the country?

Viscountess Astor

Is it not true that there are about four times as many people getting assistance as need it?

Mr. Gallecher

Is not the Minister aware that there are bitter complaints being made about the questions being asked and the very small amounts allowed to deserving old age pensioners? Will he not make an inquiry into how these Regulations are operating?

Mr. MacDonald

The opportunity which I have had of looking at this matter is of looking at the various individual cases, but if hon. Members felt that a whole category of cases are not being treated in accordance with the desires of Parliament, I would certainly like to consider those cases with a view to seeing whether some inquiry by a Board or some other authority was required. I have not so far had such categories brought to my notice.

Mr. Maxton

When the Minister asks us to send him cases, does that mean that he has taken over the Scottish aspect of this question as well as his own, or must Scottish Members send their cases to the Secretary of State for Scotland?

Mr. MacDonald

Cases coming within the purview of the Secretary of State for Scotland should go to him and not to me.