§ 24. Mr. Sorensenasked the Home Secretary whether he has any estimate of the approximate accommodation available in suitable basement and other underground shelter for those sheltering from air raids; whether he has, or will, secure information for that purpose from all authorities in London and the Home Counties; and whether he is securing that certain of those shelters shall be adapted for use as maternity or general hospital purposes?
§ Mr. H. MorrisonRegular returns as to the progress of shelter provision are received by the Regional Commissioners, but I do not think it would be in the public interest to give details of the extent to which various categories referred to by my hon. Friend are available. As regards the last part of the Question, arrangements are being made by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health whereby a sick bay will be provided in the largest shelters, and a doctor will be on call when required.
§ Mr. SorensenDoes my right hon. Friend appreciate that there are some 1130 areas in and around London where basement shelters are used by day but not by night, and that there is a considerable demand for such shelter, and will he induce local authorities to secure such shelter as is available?
§ Mr. MorrisonI have already taken such action.
25. Mr. Whiteasked the Home Secretary whether all public shelters, underground stations and rest centres are provided with first-aid personnel and equipment?
§ Mr. MorrisonArrangements have been, or are being, made in collaboration with the local authorities concerned, for the provision of first-aid personnel and equipment at all rest centres, and at the larger air-raid shelters, including underground stations used as shelters.
§ 29. Major Milnerasked the Home Secretary whether any detailed and complete survey has been made of available but wholly or partly unoccupied shelter accommodation in the London area; and whether such survey will be made periodically so as to ensure full use being made of such accommodation and the avoidance of overcrowding in other shelters?
§ Mr. MorrisonSurveys of shelter accommodation are going on continuously under the guidance of the regional technical staffs in order to ensure the fullest exploitation of shelter possibilities; and one particular object is that which I think my hon. and gallant Friend has in mind, namely, to ensure that shelter in areas where it exists to excess is used to alleviate deficiencies elsewhere; this is receiving special attention.
§ Major MilnerIs my right hon. Friend aware that although I have been drawing attention to this matter for some weeks, there is still a great number of excellent shelters in the West End which are almost wholly unused, and that, notwithstanding the various promises by his predecessor, no real direction or guidance or, it may be in some cases, compulsion, is being exercised to make use of this splendid accommodation. Will he look into the matter?
§ Mr. MorrisonThat is precisely what I have been doing ever since I have been at the Home Office.
§ Mr. SimmondsCould my right hon. Friend assure the House that although it may be essential to have extra accommodation, there will not be added to the list of shelters illusory shelters where the safety factor is very low and they do not come up to standard?
§ Mr. MorrisonThat is an important aspect of the matter which we are keeping in mind. It is the case that sometimes we think a building is good, but on technical examination it may not be so. I can assure the House that my purpose is to get all the reasonably good shelters that I can lay my hands on.
§ Major MilnerWill my right hon. Friend do me the honour of accompanying me for half an hour on some night during a raid, when I can point out to him the shelters that I mean?
§ Mr. MorrisonI shall want notice of that Question.
§ Mr. SorensenMay I ask whether any particular instructions have been issued to local authorities in view of the fact that some of these basement shelters in the Outer London area may not be safe at all?
§ Mr. MorrisonA special survey is being made in that connection, and there is co-operation between the local authorities and the Regional Commissioners. May I say this to the House, that it really is undesirable to run a policy, either by campaign or otherwise, which tends to draw people away from satisfactory domestic shelter to these large shelters, and I am a little apprehensive about the tendency of certain efforts in that direction.
§ 36. Mr. Kenneth Lindsayasked the Home Secretary what measures are being taken to reduce the damp conditions in trench shelters?
§ Mr. MorrisonI would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given on the 15th instant to the hon. Member for the Duddeston Division (Mr. Simmonds).
§ Mr. LindsayWhile I realise the difficulties, does my right hon. Friend know that women are pumping out or brushing away water in shelters where children are sleeping this week, and will he, under the ticket system, ensure that no children are allowed to sleep in these shelters, but are given priority in shelters which are completely free from damp?
§ Mr. MorrisonI can assure the hon. Member that I am doing my very best in this very difficult matter.
§ Mr. SimmondsWhen the right hon. Gentleman replied to the Question to which he referred, is it not a fact that he referred to trenches coming within the code, but there is a very large number which are without the code in which there is excessive dampness? Can anything be done there?
§ Mr. MorrisonIf anything can be done, I will do it. As the hon. Member will appreciate, it is a matter of some difficulty, but it is being promptly and sympathetically considered.
§ 37. Mr. Lindsayasked the Home Secretary on what basis he proposes to operate the ticket system for shelters?
§ Mr. MorrisonThis is a question which has arisen particularly in London, and I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of a circular which has been issued by the Regional Commissioner to local authorities in the Metropolis.
§ Mr. G. StraussCould my right hon. Friend make it available to other London Members?
§ Mr. MorrisonYes, Sir, certainly.
§ Mr. SorensenWill the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that people from other districts go to attractive shelters in particular areas, and in view of that fact, will he not confine these tickets to persons living in the particular area?
§ Mr. MorrisonWhat we have done is to leave a fair measure of elasticity to the local authorities. That question will arise undoubtedly—and some other very difficult questions. On the whole, we thought it best to make the thing somewhat experimental, and to leave a large measure of discretion to the local authorities. If hon. Members know of suitable shelter, we shall always be glad to consider it and examine it.
41. Mr. Whiteasked the Home Secretary whether he has set up or proposes to institute a regular and frequent inspection of public shelters and Underground stations?
§ Mr. MorrisonYes, Sir. The medical officers of health of the Metropolitan boroughs were requested in September 1133 last to arrange for the regular visiting of public air-raid shelters. The visiting of such shelters, including Underground stations used as shelters, by medical officers of the Ministry of Health has also been in progress, and is being further developed and systematised.
§ Sir T. MooreWill this service be available during air raids?
§ Mr. MorrisonI have already answered the Question about medical service during air raids.
§ 44. Mr. Lindsayasked the Home Secretary how many additional doctors have been provided to supervise health conditions in shelters in the Greater London area?
§ Mr. MorrisonMedical officers of health of the Metropolitan boroughs are fully co-operating in the inspection of air-raid shelters with the medical officers of the Ministry of Health specially assigned for this purpose. Arrangements for the employment of additional doctors are not yet complete, and I am not at present in a position to give the information desired by the hon. Member.
§ Mr. LindsayAs this Question has been transferred from the Minister of Health, may I take it that the right hon. Gentleman is now responsible for the conditions in shelters? Does he not consider it desirable that doctors with executive powers should deal with these matters rather than doctors who just go round and inspect? There are many doctors in first-aid posts and in a large number of shelters; in order to spread the matter out, could we not have doctors with executive powers on the spot?
§ Mr. MorrisonI have already informed the House that we are seeking to make arrangements whereby doctors will be available. I will consider the other aspect of the hon. Gentleman's Question. Co-operation between the Ministry of Home Security and the Ministry of Health is running excellently, but the actual line of demarcation of responsibility for Questions is not yet quite settled.