HC Deb 06 November 1940 vol 365 cc1343-6
The Prime Minister

I have received questions and inquiries from all the three parties in the House, and in consequence I should like to make a short statement regarding the review that has been made by the Government of the household means test for unemployment assistance and supplementary pensions. The Government have given an immense amount of consideration to this matter. We have all represented so many different points of view and have all arrived at a united conclusion. The Government intend to introduce legislation to enable them to give effect to certain changes designed to remove causes of complaint against the existing means test. The test will become one of personal need, and will be based on the following principles: the needs and resources of the applicant will continue to be aggregated with those of his wife and of any dependants, but the resources of any other member of the household will no longer be aggregated with those of the applicant. If the applicant is the householder, a standard contribution by non-dependent members of his household towards rent and other overheads, will be assumed and taken into account as part of the applicant's resources. This means that inquiry will normally be limited to the needs and resources of the applicant, his wife and dependants. If the applicant is not a householder, and is living with relations, regard will be had to the constitution and circumstances of the home in assessing his personal needs, but inquiry into the resources of other members of the household will in any case be greatly reduced and will often be unnecessary. No applicant without resources of his own will be left dependent on other members of the household for means to buy clothing and other necessary personal requirements. The Government have asked the Assistance Board to work out the detailed application of these principles in the case both of unemployment assistance and of supplementary pensions in order that they may be in a position to submit draft Regulations as soon as the necessary legislation has been passed.

Mr. Thorne

Will not the right hon. Gentleman have difficulty in finding out what are the needs?

Mr. Graham White

Can the Prime Minister say whether the proposal Is limited to supplementary pensions and unemployment assistance and that it has no relation to the position of the Poor Law?

The Prime Minister

Yes, Sir, that assumption is correct.

Mr. White

May I express the profound satisfaction of my right hon. and hon. Friends on these benches for the change that has been made?

Mr. Bevan

In view of past experience, would the Prime Minister consider giving the House more facilities than existing procedure permits when the draft Regulations are before the House? The draft Regulations are based on legislation, but that will not give the House proper opportunity of considering and amending in detail the nature of the Regulations. Experience shows that most administrative difficulties arise from the fact: that the House has had no opportunity of guiding the Assistance Board in these matters. Can there be an alteration?

The Prime Minister

I think it is probably considered all the world over an extremely remarkable fact that we are able to carry on our regular and long-valued procedure in the House under conditions which obviously, from time to time, enforce themselves upon every Member, and I do not feel at the moment that this is the time to embark on even more elaborate procedure than that which we are trying, under so many difficulties, to carry through.

Mr. Bevan

It is not a matter of making procedure more difficult. Experience has gone to show that large sums of money are spent and difficulties arise because the House has not given sufficient detailed guidance to the Unemployment Assistance Board, and the procedure of those Regulations will not permit the House to do so. Is there not a case for alteration?

The Prime Minister

That was the point to which I endeavoured to address myself.

Mr. Silverman

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that there was given to the House some time ago a pledge about the exemption from even the personal needs test of a certain limit of savings and that subsequently a Bill was introduced in this House, designed to carry out the pledge, but was withdrawn because the House did not think it did carry it out. Can the right hon. Gentleman say when that matter will be dealt with?

The Prime Minister

There will have to be a Bill, and that Bill will have to pass through all stages, including the Financial Resolution, and that will be the opportunity when questions like the one which was raised by the hon. Member can be thrashed out.

Mr. Silverman

Is there a possibility that a Bill will be so drafted as to deal with this matter?

The Prime Minister

I am afraid that to e have not yet reached the stage of casting a Bill into draft, but I have been talking with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer this morning, and he hopes that in a few weeks a Bill will be before Parliament.

Mr. Mander

Is it intended to proceed with the Determination of Needs Bill as well?

The Prime Minister

That is at the present time being considered.

Mr. Lawson

Where more serious mistakes have been made by the House is through not having power to amend these Regulations, and—

Mr. Speaker

I think sufficient questions have already been put to the Prime Minister.

Mr. Batey

May I ask a question on the statement of the Prime Minister? He said it was to be a personal needs test. Does that include a man and his wife? The Prime Minister seemed to me to include the family and not other members of the household. Are we to understand that the Prime Minister means that the incomes of members of the family will be included but not other members?

The Prime Minister

The statement was most carefully drafted, and I think it would be wise to read it first.

Mr. McGovern

Will this Bill be introduced before Christmas so that its benefits, if any, will come to applicants before then?

The Prime Minister

Yes, Sir. It will certainly be introduced before then.