HC Deb 06 November 1940 vol 365 cc1338-40
64. Mr. Sorensen

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of numbers of elderly people, some suffering from infirmities, who are still remaining in areas subject to nightly air-raids and who cannot leave their district because they are unable to find accommodation elsewhere; and whether he is giving particular attention to this aspect of the problem with a view to securing suitable accommodation and meeting the entire cost of their removal thereto?

63. Mr. Woods

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the difficulty experienced by many elderly people in the London area in finding any accommodation in reception areas, and that they are consequently compelled to remain in London; and, in view of this, will he consider extending the present scheme, so as to provide billets for the aged and infirm people now resident in the London area?

Miss Horsbrugh

The arrangements already made for the evacuation of the aged and infirm include those people in the London evacuation areas and in certain coastal towns who can make their own arrangements to be received in a reception or a neutral area; those homeless people who are willing to be removed from emergency rest centres to hospitals and then to homes on the outskirts of London; and those in need of medical and nursing care who habitually make use of air-raid shelters in the whole of the metropolitan boroughs and in East Ham and West Ham. The evacuation of all elderly people as a general class would not be practicable in view of the very special problems of accommodation, care and maintenance involved. My right hon. Friend is, however, anxious to provide such further facilities as may be practicable with the assistance of voluntary organisations and the local authorities, though it will be appreciated that the amount that can be done will be limited by the accommodation available.

Mr. Sorensen

In view of the fact that numbers of these elderly people are suffering very great hardship, through having to spend the best part of the hours of darkness in the shelters, could there not be some special scheme for them?

Miss Horsbrugh

I think the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, from the end of my reply, the difficulty of finding accommodation in the country. Many Members of this House have pressed us to increase the evacuation areas. It is a question of the number of people in the priority classes to be taken out and the amount of accommodation which is to be found in the reception areas.

Mr. Messer

Has the hon. Lady considered the possibility of taking over big mansions and houses in the country, and using them for the chronic cases with which we are finding difficulty?

Miss Horsbrugh

We have already taken many of the chronic cases to large houses on the outskirts of London. I think the hon. Member will realise that a number of large mansions are used for Service needs and the needs of those employed on work of national importance have also to be considered. It is not so easy to get this accommodation.

Sir Francis Fremantle

Would it not be possible for the empty Emergency Medical Service hospitals to be temporarily used for the aged and infirm, until they are wanted for other purposes?

Miss Horsbrugh

There is not a large number of empty E.M.S. hospitals. They are already being used for such purposes as this, and temporarily for other schemes of evacuation.

Dr. Edith Summerskill

Does the hon. Lady think it wise for the Government to make these promises to the old people over the radio, when the accommodation is not forthcoming?

Miss Horsbrugh

Of course, I am not responsible for the announcements made on the radio. But if the hon. Lady will look at the reply I have given, she will see that it is very carefully laid down—in fact, it has been announced on the wireless—that there are evacuation schemes for particular categories of the aged and infirm. My right hon. Friend cannot give an assurance that the majority of the aged people in London, or in other areas in this country, can be removed to reception areas.

Mr. Kenneth Lindsay

What does the hon. Lady mean by saying that, as a Minister, she is not responsible for what goes over the radio?

Miss Horsbrugh

Perhaps I have not regarded myself, as a junior Minister, as being responsible to such a great extent as the responsibilities of junior Ministers are looked upon by some other people. As the hon. Lady informed me, an announcement was made on the radio that was not considered to be in complete agreement with the policy stated here by my right hon. Friend. I do not think that I should be held responsible for that wireless statement, since the reply I have given sets out the Government's policy at present for the aged and infirm.

Mr. Sorensen

Is the hon. Lady aware that a large number of houses are not being used, because the owners have locked them up and gone away?

Miss Horsbrugh

I can assure the hon. Member that many of those houses are earmarked for special purposes, and have been held in readiness for those purposes. That is why the owners have gone away.

Mr. Messer

Is the hon. Lady aware that the Duke of Bedford's hospital, fitted out for patients, is being used by the Foreign Office for their clerks?

Miss Horsbrugh

There are certain temporary arrangements being made in the hospitals. At present we have more than sufficient hospital accommodation throughout the country, and in certain cases, where it is convenient, the hospitals are being used for other purposes.